Tremulous 2?

[janev]

When the time comes, Duck and Cover. Duck and Cover!

[/dev/humancontroller]

This seems like a official channel for communication with Tremulous developers, so I have public personal statement right here:

with some developers.

Tim Angus reported our Kickstarter project "Tremulous 2" for copyright infringement and our project was paused until it will be solved. It caused that I lost all positive feeling from this game and I started to hate it.

"positive feeling" in this case means the belief that you can easily steal the work of others. the developers have the right to receive proper attribution -- and complying with the CC-BY-SA is a very small thing to ask for.

make more changes to design and it will allow to name it as our original game without "thanks" to these developers.

adding a lot of changes to the design does not create an original work. the work will remain based forever.

I hope that we will find new name very soon

what is your stance towards using proper naming goals?

And last thing, I am peacefull person, but when someone want to touch something what I created with my money, then I am not so peacefull.

ROFL ! you put money into ripping off free artwork? that must be hard to do; how did you manage to do that?

here are various agency, that seeking exactly situations like this (when someone using unlicensed copied images/sounds) even when original author does not care.

makes sense. often, the author does care, but would not spend precious energy, time or money to deal with minor copyright infringement issues.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

And last thing, I am peacefull person, but when someone want to touch something what I created with my money, then I am not so peacefull.

ROFL ! you put money into ripping off free artwork? that must be hard to do; how did you manage to do that?

im more interested in how he's been surviving, when he "quit his job" months ago to work on this.

[yalt]

"You probably used bad language and your "questions" was censored by youtube. Or you created third account on R Unlimited CZ forum (previous two are banned) and some moderator deleted your spam. I did not deleted anything on youtube nor t2 forum and at this time I am the only one, who can delete there something."

-"questions" means that u read my comment cause you evaluate it and this means u lie about ur first sentence. I mean, IF you dont know what i wrote why did you use quote chars?
-On RCZ i had exact: 1 account, so again _lie_

"From that moment you acting like a angry baby, repeatedly deconning, ..."

-I never deconned on ur crap server

"Personally, now I would like to shutdown my Tremulous 1 servers"

-Please +gpp1.2

"Don't know how in UK but here are various agency, that seeking exactly situations like this (when someone using unlicensed copied images/sounds) even when original author does not care. I am not proud on this, but that is situation."

-First u should buy legal software copies and then open ur big greedy mouth and im not talking about udk. btw u know the czech city "hacker village"? Im sure u do Mr.ImNotProudOfThisCauseImACleanPlayer.

And why u need ur bros like Looki and NomadCZ (ofc a czech guy) to give u support? Ur not able to fight ur own wars urself? awwww.

[Qrntz]

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

mouseover comment you made when logged in, , click the circle that encloses a downward pointing triangle in the upper left corner of the comment, click delete.  on a video you own, it is the same deal, but with any comment.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

mouseover comment you made when logged in, click the circle that encloses a downward pointing triangle in the upper left corner of the comment, click delete.  on a video you own, it is the same deal, but with any comment.

there's a catch virus, you have to be logged in.

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii132/rakninja/forum%20stuff/ownvid_zpsab6604e8.jpg
http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii132/rakninja/forum%20stuff/othervideo_zpsd131c1df.jpg

[Lava_Croft]

Since you people are more busy talking about Tremulous than playing Tremulous, I got you some more stuff to read: http://forum.tremulous2.com/index.php?topic=118.0

Behave yourself when visiting their forum.

[Tremulant]

Why did no one tell me there was fresh drama to be enjoyed?

[kharnov]

It even has Lava involved. It's like the whole family is having a reunion again.

[Lava_Croft]

It even has Lava involved. It's like the whole family is having a reunion again.

That's only because the drama surrounding your Tremulous fork was just too sad for words.

The Tremulous2 drama is a bit different than that, since it has people who try hard to make people like Timbo look like a bad guy. Someone had to take a mild stand against it on the Tremulous2 forum.

[kharnov]

Every Tremulous fork is surrounded by drama. It's sort of a fundamental component of the community. The real question is how long the fork survives afterwards. We're still very much alive and active, and we hope Rotacak succeeds in his efforts as well.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

lol.

that thread is hilarious.

also, i am having a hard time deciding if rota is mistranslating, just stupid, or severely mentally handicapped.  he was expecting a reply through sourceforge.... from an email?  he thinks copying a server name is the same thing as what he attempted with the "tremulous 2" thing? he magically deletes posts without having seen them?

he also ignores it every time someone mentions how easy it is to come into compliance with CC-BY-SA, and wonders why he has not done so.

and sadly, only a few people seem to be aware of nexuis and what happened to it when a "commercial version" came out.  good job on knowing, virus, i mean that seriously.  i wish rota would look it up and see what happens when you try this kind of thing.

[Lava_Croft]

The situation with Nexuiz is completely different from Tremulous2, so it's best you stop comparing the two.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

The situation with Nexuiz is completely different from Tremulous2, so it's best you stop comparing the two.

really?  a FOSS game taken commercial with no connection to the people who developed the original.  sounds pretty damn similar to me.

the major difference is that the rights to the name were not ambiguously held by a fluid group of developers. the two guys with the rights to the name sold it, against the wishes of... well, damn near everyone.

and note: the only similarities between the commercial game and the FOSS one is the name and the fact that the game is FPS.  they made their own assets rather than deal with the rights hell that is trying to publish a commercial game with assets derived from assets published under FOSS licenses.

yes, there are differences in the situations, but these differences are in unimportant details.  the heart of the matter is the same.

for further proof, look at the backlash at that old april fools joke about commercial trem.

[/dev/humancontroller]

why the fuck are you idiots still discussing the name? as if that were relatively important. it is not. it's just a fucking word that took no more than some thoughts to come up with. the assets are of most importance, as it took the designers and modelers many weeks to design, model, and package; and the assets are definitely known to have been infringed.

[Lava_Croft]

really?  a FOSS game taken commercial with no connection to the people who developed the original.  sounds pretty damn similar to me.

Except the people who originally started Nexuiz are also the people who worked with Illfonic on trying to get Nexuiz on consoles. This is not the case with the Tremulous2 situation.

why the fuck are you idiots still discussing the name? as if that were relatively important. it is not. it's just a fucking word that took no more than some thoughts to come up with. the assets are of most importance, as it took the designers and modelers many weeks to design, model, and package; and the assets are definitely known to have been infringed.

It's exactly your type of people that is detrimental to situations like this. I just want to have people making more good games, whereas you just want to see someone hang. The only thing that has taken place is that people think or assume there was infringement. Someone is still innocent until proven guilty in court. Yes, it sounds silly, but it seems such silly words are needed.

Take a hike.

[vcxzet]

Someone is still innocent until proven guilty in court.

Hypocrisy at its finest.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

why the fuck are you idiots still discussing the name? as if that were relatively important. it is not. it's just a fucking word that took no more than some thoughts to come up with. the assets are of most importance, as it took the designers and modelers many weeks to design, model, and package; and the assets are definitely known to have been infringed.

ive brought it up many times, but no one, not even you, seems to notice.

really?  a FOSS game taken commercial with no connection to the people who developed the original.  sounds pretty damn similar to me.

Except the people who originally started Nexuiz are also the people who worked with Illfonic on trying to get Nexuiz on consoles. This is not the case with the Tremulous2 situation.

you mean the two guys that had rights to the name, and nothing else, who sold it?  because the engine was by someone else, and the assets were created by a variety of people.

why the fuck are you idiots still discussing the name? as if that were relatively important. it is not. it's just a fucking word that took no more than some thoughts to come up with. the assets are of most importance, as it took the designers and modelers many weeks to design, model, and package; and the assets are definitely known to have been infringed.

It's exactly your type of people that is detrimental to situations like this. I just want to have people making more good games, whereas you just want to see someone hang. The only thing that has taken place is that people think or assume there was infringement. Someone is still innocent until proven guilty in court. Yes, it sounds silly, but it seems such silly words are needed.

Take a hike.

i think dev/hc wants to see good games too.  i know i do.  i cannot speak for him, but i know i would have these good games be original works, and not starting on the basis of someone else's hard work.

you also do not need a court to see facts.  fact: rota has no claim to the tremulous name, or the assets from tremulous.  fact: usage of the assets (or derivative works based on the assets) must include proper attribution.  fact: proper attribution is not given.  we know that for usage to not be in violation of the license, proper attribution must be given, and such attribution does not exist.  it is safe to say - fact: rota and co. are infringing the copyright.  there is no "thinking" or "assumption".  this is cold hard fact.

when repeatedly asked by me in this very thread why rota does not do the oh so easy thing of providing proper attribution, no response has been made.  rota seems to studiously ignore it every time i do.

all he needed to do to silence me, and also bring himself into compliance with the copyright, was provide proper attribution.  so, why didnt he, and why did he ignore it every time it was brought up?

[Lava_Croft]

You mean the two guys that had rights to the name, and nothing else, who sold it?  because the engine was by someone else, and the assets were created by a variety of people.

The guy who owns the name and the guy responsible for the engine are exactly two of the people who worked Nexuiz on consoles. LordHavoc, the engine maintainer, had agreements in place with  Darkplaces contributors. The Nexuiz assets are of no importance, since none of them would be used for console Nexuiz. I know the untrained guard dogs like to spread a whole lot of bullshit about the Nexuiz situation, up to a point that even the most laid back people like LordHavoc get pissed off.

you also do not need a court to see facts.

So you don't need a court, but you do need the law? Way to go.

all he needed to do to silence me, and also bring himself into compliance with the copyright, was provide proper attribution.

I think Rota basically admitted that he made an error by not reaching proper agreement before launching the Kickstarter. You can hardly blame the guy for being blinded by love for Tremulous. You can however try to burn him down for it, which is certainly contraproductive for anyone who likes games like Tremulous. Before you point your finger at others, maybe it's wise to a take a look at http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=13257.0 ? Just saying...

Out of curiosity, what Tremulous assets are 'owned' by you?

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

-Nexuiz Backstory-/i]

That reminds me. I heard that someone's modding the PC edition of the new nexuiz into xonotic. Got a lot of laughs, but it might actually be done.

there's a catch virus, you have to be logged in.

I've always been logged in.
Somehow the button magically appeared though  
Maybe it's the "new" layout (updated several months ago)

[/dev/humancontroller]

It's exactly your type of people that is detrimental to situations like this.

the situation is copyright infringement of free and open content. being detrimental to such situations is good.

I just want to have people making more good games, whereas you just want to see someone hang.

WRONG. you apparently want people making more good games via infringing content (not "just want to have people make more good games"), whereas i want people making more good games without infringing content.

The only thing that has taken place is that people think or assume there was infringement.

WRONG.¹ derivative contents have been made, the pictures of which have been used on Tremulous 2's main website and forums. advertizements for a commercial project were already "broadcasted", and attribution has still not been given, and will likely not be given as recompensation.

Take a hike.

your muther.

¹ i notice that a similar statement has already been given by RAK.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

You mean the two guys that had rights to the name, and nothing else, who sold it?  because the engine was by someone else, and the assets were created by a variety of people.

The guy who owns the name and the guy responsible for the engine are exactly two of the people who worked Nexuiz on consoles. LordHavoc, the engine maintainer, had agreements in place with  Darkplaces contributors. The Nexuiz assets are of no importance, since none of them would be used for console Nexuiz. I know the untrained guard dogs like to spread a whole lot of bullshit about the Nexuiz situation, up to a point that even the most laid back people like LordHavoc get pissed off.

what does darkplaces have to do with the console nexuiz?  it uses cryengine3.....  not darkplaces.  and that does nothing to change the massive backlash at everyone involved for the console version.

you also do not need a court to see facts.

So you don't need a court, but you do need the law? Way to go.

you made a claim that people were making assumptions.  no assumptions were made.  two and two were simply added together to make four.  again i state that you do not need a court to see the fact that someone is in violation of copyright/trademark.  if you care to dispute the factual-ness of the facts i have stated, please do.  show me that rota and co. gave proper attribution, or that the CC-BY-SA does not require proper attribution.

all he needed to do to silence me, and also bring himself into compliance with the copyright, was provide proper attribution.

I think Rota basically admitted that he made an error by not reaching proper agreement before launching the Kickstarter. You can hardly blame the guy for being blinded by love for Tremulous. You can however try to burn him down for it, which is certainly contraproductive for anyone who likes games like Tremulous. Before you point your finger at others, maybe it's wise to a take a look at http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=13257.0 ? Just saying...

rota admitted he made an error?  where?  all ive seen him do is blame everyone that told him "no".  both here and in his own forum, which you so kindly linked.  yes, i CAN blame the guy.  he asked for permission, was denied, and claims he never got a response.... because he was checking sourceforge and not his email.  as to trem's sound issues, perhaps you should look up what de minimis means in the context of fair use in copyright.  or you could find out if wassisface had a license for the bbc sound library.  if you wanted to call me out on hypocrisy, however, you should have asked about my youtube videos.  i violate copyright much more blatantly than tremulous does.

Out of curiosity, what Tremulous assets are 'owned' by you?

as i have stated repeatedly, i hold no claim to any asset of tremulous.  so what?  i do not want tremulous to be another nexuiz, which is surely what would happen if rota got his way and by some miricle actually released "tremulous 2" as a commercial game.  if the nexuiz example does not tickle your fancy, what about e old april fool's joke?  i brought that up two posts ago, and you either missed or ignored it.

¹ i notice that a similar statement has already been given by RAK.

thanks for noticing.  it makes my heart glad to see that not everyone active in the discussion has a selective reading memory.

[Lava_Croft]

I was typing a nice and fully quoted reply to both of you, but while previewing it, I realized it's just not the way to handle this situation. I will try it differently, bear with me.

For all I care, everybody copies and infringes on everybodies copyrights, licences and what not as much as possible, as long as they do not charge money for it. This is why I don't care about Tremulous2 possibly infringing on Tremulous' copyrights until Rotacak launched the Kickstarter campaign before reaching an agreement with darklegion. This is the error Rotacak as much as admitted.

While you may be factually right, that hardly means you are morally right. And this morality is why this situation is a pretty hurtful thing altogether. The Tremulous Copyright Gestapo hates on the Tremulous2 Copyright Terrorists and of course they hate you back just as much, while in the end everybody is left with nothing but a very sour taste in his or her mouth, except of course for the few people who actually get happy from an outcome like this.

Are you happy with the outcome of this situation?

[Lava_Croft]

what does darkplaces have to do with the console nexuiz?

Stop comparing the Nexuiz situation to the Tremulous2 situation if you don't know what took place with the Nexuiz situation.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

I was typing a nice and fully quoted reply to both of you, but while previewing it, I realized it's just not the way to handle this situation. I will try it differently, bear with me.

For all I care, everybody copies and infringes on everybodies copyrights, licences and what not as much as possible, as long as they do not charge money for it. This is why I don't care about Tremulous2 possibly infringing on Tremulous' copyrights until Rotacak launched the Kickstarter campaign before reaching an agreement with darklegion. This is the error Rotacak as much as admitted.

While you may be factually right, that hardly means you are morally right. And this morality is why this situation is a pretty hurtful thing altogether. The Tremulous Copyright Gestapo hates on the Tremulous2 Copyright Terrorists and of course they hate you back just as much, while in the end everybody is left with nothing but a very sour taste in his or her mouth, except of course for the few people who actually get happy from an outcome like this.

Are you happy with the outcome of this situation?

you are incorrect.  i have no sour taste.  i have FOSS tremulous, unmarred by a "commercial sequel" made by people who have no rights to do so.  i get to enjoy the fact that a massive backlash at all things tremulous was averted.  

what does darkplaces have to do with the console nexuiz?

Stop comparing the Nexuiz situation to the Tremulous2 situation if you don't know what took place with the Nexuiz situation.

no.  
i may be ignorant of specifics, but i know what went down in general.  furthermore, what about the backlash at the april fools announcement?  you ignored my bringing it up. again.

regardless, i'll compare whatever the hell i want with anything i want to.  that you keep telling me not to pretty much ensures i will do so every post.

edit dug up old thread and linked it, to show the massive backlash.

[Lava_Croft]

Vitriol.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

Vitriol.

negative.  it is castigation.

[Tremulant]

regardless, i'll compare whatever the hell i want with anything i want to.  that you keep telling me not to pretty much ensures i will do so every post.

Go you, this is an entirely productive comparison to make and your stated intention, to repeat it ad nauseum, will in no way make you look like a defiant child, gj.

From my understandings of the Nexuiz case, admittedly based more on what lava told me at the time than on angry backlashy forum threads, but even taking those into consideration, it bears very little resemblance to the situation with tremulous2, i don't think dragging it, or the april fools post, up is particularly worthwhile.

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

regardless, i'll compare whatever the hell i want with anything i want to.  that you keep telling me not to pretty much ensures i will do so every post.

Go you, this is an entirely productive comparison to make and your stated intention, to repeat it ad nauseum, will in no way make you look like a defiant child, gj.

From my understandings of the Nexuiz case, admittedly based more on what lava told me at the time than on angry backlashy forum threads, but even taking those into consideration, it bears very little resemblance to the situation with tremulous2, i don't think dragging it, or the april fools post, up is particularly worthwhile.

are you really this dense?  im pretty sure the language i have been using is not ambiguous.

the point of it all is the angry forum reaction.  the backlash.  in the case of the april fools post, the "thousands of emails" from concerned players.

i'll state it clearly so there can be no excuse for misunderstanding, a commercial sequel/version of tremulous will create a massive explosion of hatred for all things tremulous.