[Archive] The Unvanquished OLD PROPOSAL

[player1]

In discussion with Einstein on IRC, he is interested in utilizing the existing code of Risujin's Heaven of Relics port for Tremulous, which most players just call the Relics mod. We would like to utilize some of the Relics as Abilities (and possibly some as Upgrades). For now, our working definition is that Abilities are "spells" or weaponless ranged attacks, chiefly against "soft" (organic) targets, and Upgrades are "buffs" or improvements in base class stats, e.g. maximum class health. As a tribute to Risujin, I have suggested using Relics to describe purchasable "spells" and Runes to describe purchasable "buffs".

Below is a partial list of possible "spells" or energy-based "weaponless" (i.e. no weapon model) ranged attacks, for use against organic targets. Due to the current balance, a Human base would be particularly susceptible to ranged attacks, and so we have chosen to limit the use of spells against "hard" targets, such as Human structures. Most Unv attacks against Human structures will have to be done the old-fashioned way: with melee weapons or very limited ranged weapons. In the interest of three-way balance, it may benefit us to make the Unv strong against Alien defenses, but less so against Human defenses, while being very effective against Human players and not so effective against larger Alien players (with their generally greater-than-Human health). For the purposes of this discussion, I have to tried to utilize the existing Relics, with only minor modifications, to suit our gameplay mechanic. Remember, in our proposed system, Unvanquished players can purchase these various spells with Bounties, and we anticipate the value of such Abilities to be in the 1 to 5 Bounty range (equal to one to five evos). Note also that we still must decide at which Stage each "spell" will be available, and which classes will be able to purchase which Abilities. Some suggestions follow. Remember, to keep the Unvanquished from being too strong, these "spells" must still be purchased with Bounties gained from kills, 2 min. survival bonuses, or, if the server op/admin/votecall so decides, a share/donate system.

Abilities, OR Energetic Ranged Attacks, Damage/Bounty/Carry Multipliers and HP Tranfers aka "spells"

Note: All Abilities will possibly be stamina-dependent, i.e. you cannot "cast" a "spell" when you have low stamina; and also that all "spells" come with trade-offs, i.e. detrimental side-effects of the released energies

Damage Multiplier - Doubles (poss. less, e.g. X 1.2) damage dealt by melee weapons (but also increases damage received). (Dreadnaught only: S3)

Immunity - Immune from Alien Poison and Human Flamer; cannot be combined with other spells, if spells can be combined at all. (All: S2)

Vampire - "Gives you health for damaging players but prevents you from healing normally." Affects melee-weapon attacks. (Shaman only: S2)

Structure Vampire - as above, except works against organic (Alien) structures, can be charged & "fired", and works over a short distance. (Shaman only: S3)

Radiation - "Slowly damages everything around you." Including your base and your teammates. (Dreadnaught and Shaman only: S2)

Resurrection - Will resurrect you with low health when you die, once per purchase. (Groundling, Stonecutter, Mason: S2)

Bounty Doubler - Doubles (possibly less, e.g. X 1.5) your Bounty kill rewards and the credit/evo reward for killing you. (Groundling, Dreadnaught, Shaman: S3)

War-Witch - Causes your attacks to heal rather than damage (teammates only). You can heal your teammates up to, say, 100+___% of regular health. (Shaman only - unless Priestess is added - S2)

Grab Bag - Purchasable for 3 Bounties, this will become a random Ability when bought (worth 1 to 5 Bounties). (All: S3)

Plague - Will drain your health until you die. You can spread the plague by touching enemy players. Will be nerfed from Relics mod, and possibly affect Alien structures; since it was a tremendous overkill advantage to Aliens in the Relics mod, it needs a slight tweaking. (Shaman only: S3)

Heal Rate - Increases rate at which Apothecary and Phials heal, lowers maximum health, e.g. 75% of maximum class health. (All, S2)

Ammo - Doubles ammunition capacity of Bowglove* weapon but randomly throws off your aim. (Mason, S3)

Builder - "Halves your build timer delay but makes you move very slowly." (Stonecutter, Mason: S2)

Damage Reducer - Reduces the damage you receive and the damage you deal, by some factor, e.g. X 0.5. (Groundling, Stonecutter, Mason: S2)

Cloak - Turns you tranlucent. It shuts off if you attack or are damaged by an enemy player. (Shaman, Mason: S3)

Destroyer - Increases damage dealt to and received from "hard" targets, i.e. Human structures (and Unv struct FF and damage decon). (Groundling, Dreadnaught: S1)

Freeze - Temporarily immobilizes and reduces underfoot friction of target. Short duration. Target still susceptible to all entities, e.g. bullets. Builder "spell", for defense. Possibly only within "build area". Projected duration: 5 sec for default builder, 10 sec for adv builder. (Stonecutter: S1; Mason: S2 - must be purchased, like all other Abilities)

Knockabout - Increases both knockback and kickback of weapon.



Upgrades: to be discussed separately, listed here because they were Relics

Lograv - Significantly reduces gravity for "casting" player, increasing jump range, decreasing maneuverability somewhat. (All, S2)

Death-from-Above: Lets you deal damage by jumping on players and buildables, Mario-style. Falling farther deals more damage. Also to you, so use with caution. (Groundling, S1)

Sonic Reducer - Makes you completely silent but you cannot hear anyone else either. (Groundling, Dreadnaught, Shaman: S1)

did not use:
Translocate - janky, significant potential for griefing, price may defray such considerations
Mini - we already hope to have mini-yokais defend the Idol, and Groundlings may be about granger-sized (or even smaller)

Note also that we have discussed (on IRC) several ways of showing which Unvanquished player is carrying, brandishing, using, utilizing or firing which "spell" or buff. Such suggestions include changing the texture of the playermodel skin to something shiny or metallic (a la UT); having the playermodel surrounded by a glow or coruscating aura (a la Unreal1, Q3a, etc.); and utilizing something like the Q3a/ta "badges" which were least popular, as they might give away position, in which case it was decided that they would be best for builder/defender/camper "spells". The most feasible and least objectionable idea seemed to be a slight skin change for the Upgrades (decals on moving models appears problematic), and a glow or aura for the Abilities. TRaK and others will reconsider these issues as the need arises, per IRCcon.

*Bowglove - Basically a Gauntlet that fires low damage projectiles, possibly only 3 before must regenerate or return to Smithy for ammunition. Possible default weapon, instead of Dagger, for Mason, adv builder, as brushback weapon for defense (a la adv granger spit).

big ups to c-ron, for starting this discussion
slight change of topic name, to separate Ability discussion from Upgrade Discussion
my post split from Mod Proposal
topics merged
result = my reply to c-ron's post, new topic name

Cheers!

[player1]

Expanded Proposal (future use)

LINK (class_stage/cost)

Stonecutter_S1/d

Groundling_S1/d

(Priestess)_S1/d

Mason_S2/1

Dreadnaught_S1/1 or Shaman_S1/1

(High Priestess_S3/3* or Repair Tech_S2/1)

*High Priestess able to use all or most Weapons, Abilities and Upgrades. Only Stonecutter and Mason can build or decontruct; Repair Tech to have Repair, Heal, etc. Abilities

[player1]

Precedent exists for psionic, magical or fantastic elements in a science-fictional milieu in such works as Anne McCaffrey's Dragonriders of Pern, where a hard sf rationale explains elements such as "dragons"; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonriders_of_Pern

In this regard see also Niven's Corollary to Clarke's Third Law of Futurological Prediction: "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niven's_laws#Niven.27s_Law_.28re:_Clarke.27s_Third_Law.29

I would also draw your attention to Niven's Fifth Law: "Psi and/or magical powers, if real, are nearly useless." Note, however the "nearly" in that statement. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niven's_laws

In that context I would then draw your attention to Niven's Seventeenth Law: "No technique works if it isn't used." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niven's_laws

We take these three statements, then, with only a minor alteration of the second, to be axiomatic:

1) "Any sufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology."

2) "Psi and/or magical powers, if real, are nearly - but not entirely - useless."

3) "No technique works if it isn't used."

No further explication necessary. It works becuz Larry Niven said so.

But seriously, the weak, almost-undetectable forces of bioelectrics, aura manipulation, apergy, levity, orgone and ionospheric cavity electromagnetic background resonance (including wireless power transfer), as revealed in the arcane researches of Tesla, Reich, Fuller, Dyson, Diesel, Schauberger, and others, are the same forces recognized as life-energy, which goes largely unfocused by most forms of life, but which can be lethally amplified and focused with proper discipline and training. See also Stanislaw Lem, PKD, Bierce, Sheckley, van Vogt, Clark Ashton Smith, Norbert Weiner, Alfred Korzybski, Morihei Ueshiba and Miyamoto Musashi, Inayat Khan, Gurdjieff, Leary, McKenna, the Discordians, and the works of such ecologists as Swedenborg, Johnny Appleseed, Robert Hart, Jack Herer and Arne Naess.

Cheers!

[Roanoke]

Our null forums seem to be deleted.
Oh, and hi again.
Oh, and nymph review

[Kaleo]

That's alright: http://unvanquished.einsteinbennyboy.com/

[player1]

Our latest, revised, re-edited, updated Minimal Proposal.

Supersedes all previous entries.

[player1]

Expanded Proposal

[player1]

The Realistic Proposal: Jumpboost, DFA, Warheart, Tinknocker, Vampire, Struct Vampire, Immunity, Freeze, Lograv, Destroyer, Ammo, Knockabout, Secondsight, Stillshield, Teamshield, RoS, Savage, Longarm, Displace

Groundling (skirmisher)
Upgrades: DFA
Abilities: none

Dreadnaught (hunter)
Upgrades: none
Abilities: DmgX, Destroyer

Shaman (neomancer)
Upgrades: none
Abilities: Immunity, Vampire, Struct Vampire

Stonecutter (artisan)
Upgrades: none
Abilities: Buildtime, Fixer, Freeze

Acolyte (infiltrator)
Upgrades: Jumpboost, DFA
Abilities: Immunity

Mason (architect)
Upgrades: Lograv
Abilities: Buildtime, Fixer, Freeze

Escort (adept)
Upgrades: none
Abilities: Warheart, Tinknocker, Ammo, Secondsight, Stillshield, Teamshield

War-Wytch (adroit)
Upgrades: none
Abilities: Knockabout, RoS, Savage, Longarm, Displace

Weapons, Classes & Structures remain as they are laid out in the Expanded Proposal. This leaves a total of 19 "powerups" (2 buffs and 17 spells) and seems much more do-able, balanced, and Trem-like.  I suggest we remove the distinction between buffs and spells altogether, and call them all "Runes" or something.

Of course, we can always make something more like Team Fortress or the original Old Proposal we had way back when we started all this here at Trem.net. For now this just represents a list of the "superpowers" that I personally think will make it into the beta-testing phase of play-balancing. I'm open to ideas about not having the players have to buy the Runes, if someone would like to post. This represents the distillation of the gameplay ideas suggested by the Relics mod, our current assets, and the weeks I have spent writing, editing and revising the Old, Null-Version, Minimal and Expanded Proposals. Hope you like it. Enjoy.

Cheers!

[ULTRA Random ViruS]

D you think you'll add it to a gpp or 1.1 server?

[Aelita]

Reply #277 on: February 24, 2009

[Chomps123]

Where did the mod's forums go?

[your face]

einstein murdered them 

[CreatureofHell]

einstein murdered them 

stabstabstabstab

[Demolution]

einstein murdered them 

stabstabstabstab

They are being moved. Now for the time being, let this topic slumber.

[cron]

Where did the mod's forums go?

All of player1's links can be found at http://unvanquished.net/forum/ (or just replace the 'einsteinbennyboy.com' part of his links with '.net').

In other news, the mod is not dead, but is on hold until the code works properly (this might take a while).

[Tremhelper]

look up my groups for remoulous thread

[Plague Bringer]

http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?action=globalAnnouncements;id=2#post_four

http://unvanquished.net/forum/

Any amount of thought would have lead you to the conclusion that

A) This thread is really old...

B) Unvanquished is probably dead...

C) Player1 has better and more developed ideas than you, therefore...

D) I doubt he'd care about your thread if he was around to read it.

Take a look at the date of the last post in a thread before you respond, and please, please, please, if you're serious about modding, learn some C, Blender, NetRadiant, and general leadership, or at the very, very least spend a week (or more, even!) developing your idea before you come to us with it. People come here all the time with ideas that they haven't thought out fully, and are far too complex considering how much skill they lack. "This would be cool!" is not a good basis for a mod. We won't think for you. We won't code for you. We won't model for you. We won't lead for you. Not unless you bring something to the table, and so far, I haven't seen anything from you.

[CorSair]

Thanks a lot. I had to share it again.
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Hi s-bot.