Author Topic: [Archive] The Unvanquished OLD PROPOSAL  (Read 243434 times)

player1

  • Posts: 3062
  • Turrets: +527/-401
    • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
[Archive] The Unvanquished OLD PROPOSAL
« on: December 08, 2008, 05:09:16 pm »
NOTE: This is an ARCHIVE ONLY thread, for those who have a few hours to devote to see just how much work goes into writing a decent proposal for a mod. Presented here as a warning to the lazy. Be serious if you want to propose a mod. It takes almost as much work to design a mod as to make it.

Well, although the Dreaded Third Race Question has long been much-besmirched, we now have a coder of the stature of Amanieu calling for a serious proposal. Since I was already trying to demonstrate the amount of design that would have to be accomplished in another thread, I already had a Mod [Concept] in the works, because I find making such things to be quite enjoyable. While I do not want to get into the usual flamewars over whether or not the whole Third Race idea is even cool/good/starcraftian/ZOMFGwtfSTFUgtfo, I do welcome comments. A brief backstory will also be provided, as well as a list of player avatars, artifacts, weapons, a combat system, an advancement system, abilities, constructables, and the like. If you enjoy reading and discussing such things, welcome! If not, begone! Herewith, a mod to end all mods, the Dreaded Third Race Suggestion: The Unvanquished!

Cheers!

player1

  • Posts: 3062
  • Turrets: +527/-401
    • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
The Unvanquished - Outline & Overview
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2008, 05:09:35 pm »
The gist of the Unvanquished is that the player has six different classes or Bounty Trees from which to choose: Priestess, Nymph, Evolute, Shojo, Mer-Centaur, and Artificer. Depending on what Stage the Unvanquished Team has achieved, there are then various weapons, abilities, powers, and avatars which they may use, if they have collected enough Bounty to Advance. Note: 1 Bounty = 1 Evo, or iirc, 175 Credits. Thus, while they have a combination of ranged and melee weapons at their disposal, their health is generally greater than that of Humans, and their advancement system is much like cashing in Evos to Evolve: you cash in Bounty to Advance. See each class for specifics on weapons, items, damage, health, stage available, and etc.

player1

  • Posts: 3062
  • Turrets: +527/-401
    • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
The Unvanquished: Combat & Advancement
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2008, 05:10:33 pm »
1 Bounty = 1 Evo = iirc, 175 Credits

Phial = +15 Health; Carry Limit = 2

Dretch Headbite only does 75 Max. Damage to Unvanquished!!!

(will still kill Nymph-form or Merman-form in one headbite)

player1

  • Posts: 3062
  • Turrets: +527/-401
    • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
The Unvanquished - Structures.beta_1
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2008, 05:11:00 pm »
Structures

KEY: Name Stage Mana - Type

Idol S1 0bp  - Mother Structure

Icon S1 10bp - Spawn Point

Brazier S1 8bp - Mild Defense

Apothecary S1 10bp - Heal Point, Health-Pack Restock Point, Poison Purchase Point

Smithy 1 10bp - Weapon/Upgrade Purchase Point, Ranged Ammo Reload Point

Oracle 3 10bp - Camp Defense

Crystal 2 0bp - Forward Base Minimum, Ranged Ammo Reload Point, self-destructs if powers nothing for 3 min.

Types:
OM/RC - Mother Structure
Egg/Node - Spawn Point
Tube/Ret - Mild Defense
Booster/Medi - Heal Point, (also, Restock Health-Pack, Humans)
none/Armoury - Weapon and Upgrade Purchase Point, Ammo Reload Point
Tesla/Hive-Trapper-Hovel - Camp Defense
Repeater/Booster - Forward Base Minimum, Ammo Reload Point


Sentience/Power = Mana = Build Points

player1

  • Posts: 3062
  • Turrets: +527/-401
    • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
The Unvanquished: About.beta_1
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2008, 05:11:27 pm »
The Unvanquished are a Confedation of Omniversal Sentients who have become embroiled in the Human-Alien Conflict of the 41st Century. They have been shocked and outraged at the war-mongering ways of both species, and have decided to put  an end to the conflict by annihilating these outsiders and restoring peace to the Worldlets of the Peaceable Starfolk.

tl;dr: They're sick of this bloody war, and are gonna kick some ass on both Humans and Aliens.

They are an amalgam of six different classes, as follows:

Priestess - Medic (angel-winged fox-woman) [female]

Nymph - Scout/Spy (dragonfly-winged water-sprite) [female]

Evolute - Soldier (giant demon with club becomes tiny raccoon-dog war-wizard) [male]

Shojo - Heavy (Noh-masked orangutan-yeti) [female]

Mer-Centaur - Pyro/Sniper-Demoman (alligator/snapping-turtle-demon or seahorse-centaur) [male]

Artificer - Builder (dog/hawk/demon-elfling) [male]

Anime/Manga Ghost-Ninja Space-Pirate Obake-Daemonfolk, ftw!!!

player1

  • Posts: 3062
  • Turrets: +527/-401
    • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
The Unvanquished: Classes - Priestess.alpha_1
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2008, 05:11:53 pm »
Priestess: Necromantic Poltergeist-Samurai Taikonautic-Buccaneer Cherubim-Kitsune

Health: 120

Note: Possesses the power of Flight (but slower than a Jetpack, and Stamina-Dependent)

Default Attributes:
  • Healing Aura: S1. 10' rad. 30hp/min.; S2. 12' rad.; S3. 15' rad.
  • Stillshield: S1. +18 hp/90s recharge; S2. +36 hp/180s recharge; S3. +36 hp/90s recharge
  • Bowglove: 9 Damage per Hit per projectile + S2 2b: Poison

UpgradesStageCost:
  • Bubbleshield1b: no hitscan shots in or out - S1. 5' rad. 60s/180s; S2. 7' rad. 45s/120s; S3. 9' rad. 30s/90s (on/recharge - no off toggle)
  • SquadshieldS22b: adds armor value to nearby teammates - S2. 12' dia. +25 hp; S3. 15' dia. +30hp [regenerates if damaged, +5hp/min, +25/min if on "Hallowed Ground" (near Mana)]
  • Plaguepulse 1b: damage + Poison to nearby opponents - S1. 5d/9'/180s; S2. 7d/12'/240s; S3. 9d/15'/300s
  • Bowglove PoisonS22b: Poison for Bowglove Projectiles (Default Weapon)
  • Staff of RebirthS22b:  S2. Resuscitation* & Heal Rate X 1.4; S3. Resusc. & Heal Rate X 1.6
  • Helm of Far-Scrying2b: S1. Armor Value & Teamsee; S2. & Radar; S3. & Radar X 1.5 distance
  • Cuirass & GreavesS21b: Light Armor for Priestess, not available until Stage 2

d=default
b=Bounty
1 Bounty = 1 Evolve = iirc, 175 Credits

*Resuscitation means player keeps purchased Upgrades. If you buy the Staff, and you get killed, when you respawn you will still have your Staff of Rebirth, as well as your Upgrades.

Medic

player1

  • Posts: 3062
  • Turrets: +527/-401
    • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
The Unvanquished: Classes - Nymph.alpha_1
« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2008, 05:12:17 pm »
Nymph: Xenomorphic Vampire-Ronin Cosmic-Privateer Kraken-Faery

Health is form-specific, see below
Note: Also possesses the power of Flight (somewhat slower than Jetpack), Stamina-Dependent

Default Attributes:
    Naiad form, Health: S1. 75; S2. 90; S3. 105
    • Invisibility-while-Flying: S1. Cloaked; S2. Camo; S3. Inviso
    • Sting -  S1. 18 Damage per Hit [25 Human Headshot]; S2. 25 D/H [36 HH]; S3. 36 D/H [50 HH]
    • Slayshield - 18 Damage to all foes within Spherical Blast Radius emanating from Avatar to approx. 12 "feet" away*, 90s recharge
    • BloodsuckerLatent:S2 - Transfer 18 Health Points from all foes within Spherical Blast Radius, approx. 18 "feet" in diameter, 180s recharge
    OR,
    Nereid form, Health: S1. 90; S2. 105; S3. 120
    • Invisibility-while-Unmoving: S1. Cloaked; S2. Camo; S3. Inviso
    • Stun - S1. 15 Damage per Hit, 0.2s Stun Effect; S2. 30 D/H, 0.4s Stun Effect; S3. 45 D/H, 0.5s Flashbang Effect
    • Blastshield - 25 Damage to all foes within Spherical Blast Radius emanating from Avatar to approx. 9 "feet" away, 120s recharge
    • DestroyerLatent:S2 - Transfer 25 Health Points from all Enemy Structures within Spherical Blast Radius, approx. 15 "feet" in diameter, 300s recharge

    Advancement - Upgrades:
    • Sting/Stun DoublerS1 3b - Doubles Damage Dealt by Default Offensive Attribute
    • ShieldspeedS3 3b - Reduces Shield Charge Time by Half (Slayshield=45s; Blastshield=60s)
    • WampyriS3 2b - Increases Spherical Blast Radius of Transfer Attribute by One-Third (Bloodsucker - dia.=24'; Destroyer - dia.=20')

    Nymphs cannot carry Weapons or wear Armor
    b=Bounty
    1 Bounty = 1 Evolve = iirc, 175 Credits
    Note: Due to transfer of hp from Bloodsucker and Destroyer attributes, Maximum Health is equal to twice normal health for that form at that Stage, e.g. Naiad, S1, norm. health=75, max. health=150.

    Naiad - Scout
    Nereid - Spy


    *twice the height of the Human Space Marine avatar (blast radius at sternum height, or 2/3 avatar height)[/list]

    player1

    • Posts: 3062
    • Turrets: +527/-401
      • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
    The Unvanquished: Classes - Evolute.alpha_1
    « Reply #7 on: December 08, 2008, 05:12:37 pm »
    Evolute: Undead-Metadaptoid Interglobal-Progressive-Soldato Oni-Tanuki

    Default Attributes: (Oni)
    Beserker - Health: 200; Slingshot, 9 D/H per proj.; Club, 12 Damage per Hit

    Advancement (available sub-class upgrades, same avatar and artifacts, better attributes, for health, see each): (Tanuki)
    • Warrior 1b - HP=175, Armor=24, S1. Broadsword, 18 D/H; S2. Bow, 18 D/Hpp; S3. Stabbing Spear, 36 D/H, 3-stab
    • Adept 2b - HP=150, Armor=36, S1. Firesword, 25 D/H; S2. Recurve Bow , 25 D/Hpp; S3. Adder Staff, 36 D/H+Poison
    • Paladin 3b - HP=125, Armor=48 S1. Longsword, 36 D/H; S2. Longbow, 36 D/Hpp; S3. Staff of Lux, 36 D/H+Flashbang
    • Mage 4b - HP=100, Armor=60 S1. Magicsword, 50 D/H; S2. Wizard's Bow, 25 D/Hpp+SAD*; S3.  Viper Staff, 50 D/H+Poison

    Note: Evolute class cannot buy Weapons or Upgrades at a Smithy (but can buy Poison at the Apothecary - S2 2b), only purchase higher subclass and weapon/armor loadout/package of Evolute Bounty Tree. Half of the indicated Armor value is the Helmet Armor Value.

    Only carries one Weapon in addition to Default Weapon:
    Stage 1 = Sword
    Stage 2 = Bow
    Stage 3 = Spear/Staff


    Note: All forms available all Stages
    Default weapon of Warrior/Adept: Bowglove, 9 D/Hpp+ S2 2b Poison
    Default weapon of Paladin/Sage: Thrown Darts, 18 D/Hpp+ S2 2b Poison
    *SAD=Splash Area Damage

    Soldier

    player1

    • Posts: 3062
    • Turrets: +527/-401
      • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
    The Unvanquished: Classes - Shōjō.beta_1
    « Reply #8 on: December 08, 2008, 05:13:03 pm »
    Shōjō: Shaolin-Shinto-Budo Judo/Jiu-Jitsu/Aikido Drunk-Nun Monkey-Queen

    Health is form-dependent, see below.

    Default Attributes:
    Dedicant - HP=100, Small Stars 9 D/Hpp, Chop 9 D/H, Front Kick 27 D/H, Spawnshield*, Human Stamina X 1.1

    Advancement:
    • Adherent S1 1b - HP=150, Pentacle Stars 18 D/Hpp, Punch 18 D/H - 0.2s Stun Effect, Side Kick 27 D/H, Cloaked 30s per 3 min., Stamina X 1.2
    • Adroit S1 2b - HP=200, Temple Stars 27 D/Hpp, Elbow 27 D/H - 0.4s Stun Effect, High Kick 36 D/H, Camo 60s per 3 min., Stamina X 1.4
    • Seeker S2 3b - HP=250, Death Stars 36 D/Hpp, Jab/Uppercut 36 D/H - 0.5s Stun Effect, Kick Flip 54 D/H, Inviso 30s per 3 min., Stamina X 1.6
    • Sage S3  5b - HP=300, Nun's Stars 39 D/Hpp+Poison, Spinning Backfist 36 D/H - 0.5s Stun Effect + 18 ESAD, Roundhouse Kick 54 D/H - 0.5s Stun + 36 ESAD, Jump Height X 1.5, Stamina X 1.8

    ESAD=Explosive Splash Area Damage
    Note: Drunk Nuns cannot buy Weapons, and are armed only with Throwing Stars. Their attacks are all martial arts melee attacks, and they receive a stamina boost as well as a Special Attribute at each level of Advancement. Drunk Nuns cannot buy or wear Armor.
    *Spawnshield - Dedicant Drunk Nun is invulnerable to attack for first 30 seconds after spawning, impervious to headshot damage multiplier for first 60s after spawning.

    Heavy

    player1

    • Posts: 3062
    • Turrets: +527/-401
      • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
    The Unvanquished: Classes - Merfolk.alpha_1
    « Reply #9 on: December 08, 2008, 05:13:26 pm »
    Mer-Centaur: Zoomorphic-Xenothropic Otherworldly-Mercenary-Militia Kappa-Yokai

    Health is form-specific, see below

    Default Attributes: (Kappa)
    Merman - Hot Hand (15 Damage per Touch - 45 Human Headshot), 75 Health
    • S1 - Blaze-Spear: 18 dmg
    • S2 - Flame-Trident: 25 dmg
    • S3 - Fire-Lance: 36 dmg

    Advancement: (Yokai)
    Centaur 2b - Slingshot (9 dmg, per. proj.) & Gallop (Nerfed Trample), 125 Health
    • S1 - Hornbow: 20 dmg, per proj., 40 Human Headshot
    • S2 - Crossbow: 33 dmg, per proj., 66 HH
    • S3 - Tri-flame: 12 dmg + 18 explosive splash-area damage, per proj., 3-round salvo

    Merman - Pyro
    Centaur, S1 & S2 - Sniper
    Centaur, S3 - Demoman

    player1

    • Posts: 3062
    • Turrets: +527/-401
      • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
    The Unvanquished: Classes - Artificer.alpha_1
    « Reply #10 on: December 08, 2008, 05:18:39 pm »
    Artificer: Voodoo Zombie-Daemon Asteroidal-Freebooter Wolfhawk-Tengu

    Health: S1. 100 hp; S2. 125 hp; S3. 150 hp
    Note: Also possesses the power of Flight (much slower than Jetpack), only while Build Timer is counting down

    Default Attributes:
    • Levity-Whilst-Making - S1. Slow Flight; S2. Speed X 1.3; S3. Spd. X 1.6
    • Wand of Making - S1. Build; S2. Timer X 0.6; S3. Tmr. X 0.3
    • Thrown Darts: 18 Damage per Hit per Projectile + S2 2b Poison

    WeaponsCost (Carry Limit=1):
    • Athame 2b - S1. 25 Damage per Hit; S2. 36 D/H; S3. 50 D/H
    • Short-bow 3b - S1. Guilder-bow - 18 D/Hpp; S2. Craft-bow - 25 D/Hpp; S3. Tribow - 36 D/Hpp+Poison, 3-round salvo
    • Psychic Sai 2b: S1. 18 Damage per Hit [25 for Headshot on Human]; S2. 25 D/H [36 HH]; S3. 36 D/H [50 HH]
    • Pirate-sword S1/2/3 2b/3b/4b:  S1. Saber - 21 Damage per Hit; S2. Cutlass - 33 D/H; S3. Scimitar - 42 D/H
    UpgradesCost:
    • Poison for Thrown Darts S2 2b - Adds Poison to Thrown Darts (Default Weapon), not available until Stage 2
    • Helm of Esprit d'Corps 2b - S1. Armor Value & Teamsee; S2, S3. & Radar
    • Staff of Repair S2 2b - S2. Repair (equal to Human builder); S3. Repair Rate X 1.5
    • Torc of Protection S3 3b: Battlesuit for Artificer, not available until Stage 3

    Note: This is the Builder Class.

    Engineer

    player1

    • Posts: 3062
    • Turrets: +527/-401
      • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
    The Unvanquished: Total Conversion - Humans.wip
    « Reply #11 on: December 08, 2008, 05:19:02 pm »
    Total Conversion - Humans

    Weapons:
    Stunnerd - no ammo, can't sell
    Dart Rifled - dart ammo, must sell to upgrade
    IronhandS1 - no ammo
    Crystal WakazashiS2 - no ammo
    Quad ShotgunS1 - shotgun ammo
    ZapperS1 - needs recharging
    FreezerS2 - needs recharging
    RailgunS2 - railgun ammo; needs recharging
    Rocket LauncherS3 - rocket ammo
    Sniper RifleS1 - sniper ammo

    Upgrades:
    Teamsee Helmet S1 - see what's in your teammates vis_area and angle-of-view (not radar!)
    Link Pack S2 - minimap & extended team radar and extended team power & Bot's-Eye-View from DefendBots and MediBots
    Ammo Pack S3 - increased ammo carry for ammo-using weapons
    Shield Pack S3 - +50 armor, 180s recharge

    Structures:
    Motherpod = Repeater/Telenode/Medistation All-in-One Structure (worth combined Build Points [Power] and combined Hit Points [Health])

    Ammo Locker = Reload all weapons, including non-NRG-based, conventional ones; repair Armor

    Defendbots: Tribow S1 8, Fletchette S1 10, Minigun S2 8, Gauss Rifle S3 12

    Medibot S1 6, not Medistation

    Structure Stage Power (BP)

    The overall idea is to make the Human Team a much more mobile, nomadic faction, and trade in the camping for some walkabout. What better way than to make Turrets and Medistations that get up and walk away if you camp too long?

    player1

    • Posts: 3062
    • Turrets: +527/-401
      • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
    The Unvanquished: Total Conversion - Aliens.wip
    « Reply #12 on: December 08, 2008, 05:20:16 pm »
    Total Conversion - Aliens

    Classes:
    Dretchflyd (Wallwalk: ON=Dretch, OFF=Flying Dretch)
    Weaverd (Adv. = S2, Mini-Dart)
    HydraliskS1 (Adv. = S2, Mini-Luciball)
    MaraliskS1 (Adv. = S2, Flamethrowing)
    Were-GoonS1 (Human Head, Arms & Torso, Dragoon Body & Legs) (Adv. = S3, Corpse Scavenge)
    QueenS3 (Mini-Tyrant)

    Weaver

    OR,
    Dretchfly - Health: 36, Wallwalk ON: wallwalking dretch; OFF: flying dretch

    if Dretchfly:
    Advancement (assumable shapes, see key):
    • Hydralisk S1 1b HP=72, Grab, Slash, Healing Aura, Repair Structures
    • Adv. Hydralisk S2 2b HP=108, Hydralisk that spits mini-luci-balls
    • Maralisk S1 2b HP=144, Wallwalk ON: Hydralisk, OFF: Marauder
    • Adv. Maralisk S2 3b HP=180, Wallwalk ON: Adv. Hydralisk; OFF: Adv. Maralisk: Shoots flames
    • Were-Goon S1 3b - Explosive Darts* & Pounce, 200 Health
      • S1 - Saber: 25 dmg. per hit
      • S2 - Cutlass: 75 dmg. per hit
      • S3 - Scimitar: 125 dmg. per hit
    • Queen (Mini-Tyrant) S3 4b - HP=200, half-height Tyrant that deals 2X damage


    Notes:
    Key = Form Stage Cost - Health
    *Explosive Darts - 12 dmg. per hit + 18 dmg. per explosion + splash area damage for explosion (structures and players)

    Archangel

    • Guest
    Re: [Concept] The Unvanquished
    « Reply #13 on: December 08, 2008, 05:22:25 pm »
    reserved

    player1

    • Posts: 3062
    • Turrets: +527/-401
      • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
    Re: [Concept] The Unvanquished
    « Reply #14 on: December 08, 2008, 06:27:44 pm »
    More to follow: I have quite a bit of it down on paper, so I just need to transcribe what I have and continue assigning values. I have another project to work on for the next few hours, but I'll get back to this later today (tomorrow in some areas).

    Cheers!

    Archangel

    • Guest
    Re: [Concept] The Unvanquished
    « Reply #15 on: December 08, 2008, 06:42:46 pm »
    So far, very intriguing. I am excited to see where this goes. Good luck player1!

    Hendrich

    • Posts: 898
    • Turrets: +168/-149
      • TremCommands
    Re: [Concept] The Unvanquished
    « Reply #16 on: December 09, 2008, 02:18:11 am »
    Very nice Player1, I see that your taking creating a third race seriously, maturely and above all positively. Its a lot better then the bullshit was flying out of the relating thread, and I hope to see this mod actually blossom into something bigger with you and Amanieu as a working team.

    Btw, are the race you're working on seem to be magic/tech based? I was thinking more of a hybrid of humans and aliens spewed together to create thier own advantages over the other classes, but also flawing out their dis-advantages due to their insane creator, which he combined alien DNA and human technology to kill off the other species for which he loathed for many years, had made the augmentations contain dangerous side-effects like reduced eyesight, de-morphed body parts, decreased strength, etc.

    Hold on, where the hell did I heard that before? Nah, screw it, your idea is more planned out and original. Goodluck with your work Player1.
    « Last Edit: December 09, 2008, 02:20:25 am by Hendrich »

    Seffylight

    • Posts: 490
    • Turrets: +40/-26
    Re: [Concept] The Unvanquished
    « Reply #17 on: December 09, 2008, 02:23:33 am »
    So, they're Protoss?
    Stop it. Seriously.

    player1

    • Posts: 3062
    • Turrets: +527/-401
      • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
    Re: [Concept] The Unvanquished
    « Reply #18 on: December 09, 2008, 02:33:35 am »
    Thanks, Hendrich. I'm looking forward to a serious critique by players, especially as to health and damage values, as well as Bounty/Advancement values.

    It's a fairly complex, almost (dare I say it) RPG-ish race of six base classes (TF/SC/WH/Renegades), where the players can collect artifacts or take on various avatars, and these items and forms take on more power as the entire team's stage advances. So the object is not to die too much, because you'll lose your artifacts, but because Tremulous is first and foremost a first-person shooter/slasher, the classes are fun to play even as default, just like you can play a Dretch in Stage 3. So people won't just camp for items. Players may not even get a "stay alive" bonus (that evo/cred you get for surviving, what is it? - an evo every 2 minutes, iirc), so they'll have to go out and kill something; that remains to be seen.

    Anyway, I've said too much already, I'd better just finish laying it out before I start telling you so much about the rest of it.

    Cheers!

    :)

    @seffylight: The purpose of this thread is to demonstrate the amount of design work that could be involved in creating a serious proposal for a Type 10a Thread - The Dreaded Third Race Suggestion, since it was remarked elsewhere that it should be a pretty easy task to make a TremCraft Mod. Since I've never played StarCraft, WarCraft or WarHammer, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat. The only Three Team Shooter I've ever played was Tribes, where they had a 3-way mod, but the maps were sometimes definitely designed for two teams. So, I welcome serious critique of damage, health, etc. I don't know a Protoss from a Zerg, except for being on the net playing games since about '97. Wish me luck.


    Hendrich

    • Posts: 898
    • Turrets: +168/-149
      • TremCommands
    Re: [Concept] The Unvanquished
    « Reply #19 on: December 09, 2008, 03:32:38 am »
    Quote
    I'm looking forward to a serious critique by players, especially as to health and damage values, as well as Bounty/Advancement values.

    Well, I'm sure the community of Tremulous is already aware of your creativity, intelligence and how you keep an open-mind to things without venturing too far from reality, so I have confidence that critiques will be plentiful. The community has always wondered to it would be like to have a new race, and inspired by the two default races, we boggle our brains with ideas about the topic and throw out our ideas on the forums, but not once did we take it to the next level.

    But, alas, your right, its just on paper for now and nothing happened yet, but hey, so was Tremulous. Once again I'd like to say that your concept is original and promising, thus that is why everybody here should take it seriously and see what we as the community could help, whether its a small suggestion or help with the actual modeling code. Every step is a pathway into making the future of Tremulous bright.

    player1

    • Posts: 3062
    • Turrets: +527/-401
      • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
    Re: [Concept] The Unvanquished
    « Reply #20 on: December 09, 2008, 05:22:56 am »
    Oh, sorry, it's not finished yet. That's only about a tenth of what I have on paper. I design with a pencil: I'm old. :)

    I still need to enter a lot of what I have, I just haven't found the time yet today. By the end of the week, the above posts will all be a lot longer. That's why I reserved so many slots. So far I've just provided a visual description of each class, in case any 2d artists would like to take a shot at concept art. Some 3d modelers prefer to work from a 2d concept. If anyone is interested, by all means, have at it. I still need to fill you in on a lot of details.

    Which reminds me: back to transcribing.

    Stay tuned.

    And thanks for your continued support. :)

    player1

    • Posts: 3062
    • Turrets: +527/-401
      • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
    [Concept] The Unvanquished: Animanga Daemons
    « Reply #21 on: December 09, 2008, 06:01:26 am »
    Template: Majickal Ghost-Ninja Space-Pirate Anime-Manga-Asian-Mythology Fantastic-Creature-People

    player1

    • Posts: 3062
    • Turrets: +527/-401
      • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
    Re: [Concept] The Unvanquished
    « Reply #22 on: December 09, 2008, 07:10:04 am »
    Note: wip = Work in Progress

    This Mod [Concept] Proposal, while fully fleshed-out on paper, is not yet fully represented above. I'll finish transcribing it this week, if not tomorrow night (Wednesday in some areas). Big ups to Amanieu, who asked for it, and rotacak, who challenged me to think more deeply about it. Peace for now.

    hymn

    • Posts: 19
    • Turrets: +4/-1
    Re: [Concept] The Unvanquished
    « Reply #23 on: December 09, 2008, 08:04:00 am »
    Just as a friendly statement, right now everythign seems all over the place, if I might suggest moving the information around so that similar information be put toghether, somewhat in the format of:
    1)Introduction
    2)explanation
    3)clarifications
    4.a)structure list
    4.b)single structure information(ie. stats, use and/or fonction)
    5.a)class list
    5.b)Class information(trying to keep each in the same post by seperating each one with a bolded line)
    5)modifications to other races/new content(if applicable)
    6)thoughts on a general base environment
    7)conclusion/final thoughts
    8)thanks/credits(if needed)

    This would make it much more clear for other people, because right now it just seems all over the place, it would also help you know what exactly you have yet to put up, since if you work in the same way as I do with my papers, your info is probably all over the place as well.


    As for your idea, although it sounds entertaining, it just doesn't seem to fit in with the tremulous kind of play, its a bit too RPGish. But to build up on what you have put up so far, I'd say I like the idea of a multiple class race where you can be anything from the start, but the classes build up overtime(via the artifact system), since I don't see how a centaur could evolve into a griffin, unless the race is composed of shapeshifters(its kind of hard to follow) that can change into anything at will(in which case I'd say would require full health to shapeshift as a requirement).

    As for concept art, this is the internet, I'm certain it would be very easy to find art pieces around the net which could represent your general idea, and after asking the author's permission, use it for the 3d modeling phase, hell maybe even those artists would willingly make a concept art for the team to use.
    Quote
    Majickal Ghost-Ninja Space-Pirate Fantastic-Creature-People
    Take it you still need a name?


    Also, its lte right now, so tomorow I'll have a longer look at what you have showed so far and maybe critique more in details.

    Seffylight

    • Posts: 490
    • Turrets: +40/-26
    Re: [Concept] The Unvanquished
    « Reply #24 on: December 09, 2008, 10:47:40 am »
    words words words

    In StarCraft there were the technology-based Humans, the buglike Zerg, and the tribal Protoss (who had MAGICAL MIND POWERZ). Basically technology vs. alienz vs. magicz (and some StarCraft nerd will come along and say that the comparison isn't perfect, but WHAT IS PERFECT, MR. IMAGINARY-STRAWMAN-STARCRAFT NERD). I just thought it was kinda funny that your suggestion almost fits the Protoss hole that Tremulous is lacking to be a StarCraft FPS.

    also i was mostly being facetious
    Stop it. Seriously.

    hymn

    • Posts: 19
    • Turrets: +4/-1
    Re: [Concept] The Unvanquished
    « Reply #25 on: December 09, 2008, 02:51:15 pm »
    Quote
    In StarCraft there were the technology-based Humans, the buglike Zerg, and the tribal Protoss (who had MAGICAL MIND POWERZ). Basically technology vs. alienz vs. magicz (and some StarCraft nerd will come along and say that the comparison isn't perfect, but WHAT IS PERFECT, MR. IMAGINARY-STRAWMAN-STARCRAFT NERD). I just thought it was kinda funny that your suggestion almost fits the Protoss hole that Tremulous is lacking to be a StarCraft FPS.

    I am no starcraft nerd, and having played a few games while I was younger doesn't mean that I'm one either. Protoss were a lot more technological then humans, a lot more advanced in fact. The only psy-like technology they had came from their templars/archons, so thats 2 units. Humans were mostly in-between the 2 other races.

    The only way to make this into a protoss-like race is to allow them to make airships, have a ground unit with 2 energy blade called a zealot and get a tank-like spider machine that can shoot energy balls.

    His race sounds a lot more like something out of warcraft then out of starcraft, in fact it sounds a lot like the night elves., but this isin't the point here.

    player1

    • Posts: 3062
    • Turrets: +527/-401
      • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
    Re: [Concept] The Unvanquished
    « Reply #26 on: December 10, 2008, 05:04:20 pm »
    @hymn: Thanks for the input. It's been a busy week, and my work hours are very irregular this week, but I will finish inputting the information and formatting the text this week. Your concerns are duly noted; what will be the headers for each post are currently footers: the edit reason. The text needs quite a bit of formatting to be more easily navigable, to be sure. An outline of the format will also be provided, as you suggest. Since I've already input quite a bit of the info, I'll probably finish what I started before I reorganize the text in the fashion you suggest. It may not be exactly as you describe, but the final version will be quite a bit more organized, to be sure. I suppose I should have done it up in Word or Pages first, and will take that under consideration when I begin reorganizing. For now, my intention is to just get the rest of the Class info input. :)

    I should also have posted the following info about the classes, but basically Priestess and Artificer gather artifacts (but because it's Trem, all they have to do is kill enemies to get the items they need). Of the other classes, Nymph and Mer-centaur are the shape-changers: Nymph can become any of four types of "new" Alien, while Mer-Centaur can become any of four different forms: two of which are two "new" Alien classes, and two of which are "native" forms for this shape-shifter, namely Merman and Centaur. You'll see, as soon as I finish the layout above. Of the remaining two classes, Evolute and Drunk Monk, both are progressive classes, much like the current Aliens: as the player gets more kills, he can Advance to more-evolved/better/deadlier forms. It will all be based on gathering Bounty (which are basically just Evos). So, it's just Tremulous: Kill foes, get cool toys, kill more stuff more efficiently. :D

    So two classes are Item-Gathering, two classes are Shape-Shifting, and two classes are Progressive or Evolutionary. The Unvanquished are kind of like Humans who have adopted Alien forms, methods and tactics to battle both the Humans and the Aliens. Since the backstory is very vague, it can be added that they are a new hybrid of the xenohumans who have long lived among alien species, and now seek to end the Human-Alien War, or to dominate the local volume of space where their Confederation has achieved a stronghold. I'm definitely open to ideas. ;D

    Yes, they are RPG-ish. However, given the current two Tremulous races, I felt a third form of Combat and Advancement was needed, to allow the Third Race to have a real unique flavor from the other two. As to magic in a scientific world: I don't believe the two are mutually exclusive; indeed, the more we know about science, the more there is to speculate about the magical things we can do with science, properly applied. Or as A.C. Clarke said, "Any Magic is simply Science sufficiently advanced.", e.g. Warhammer 40K, et al. 8)

    As to concept art, yes, it will be quite easy for an image-spammer like myself to find and post sufficient amounts of art links, and indeed, that will be a future addition to this thread, or possibly an art contest thread in this or another forum, in the near future. I already have some pretty clear ideas, but I wanted to provide just a smidgen of information, to whet players appetites. ;)

    The name, so far, is the Unvanquished, a tribute to some player-names from this very forum. As always, all ideas are freely-given, totally open-source and subject to change due to community input. Magical Ghost-Ninja Space-Pirate Mythological-Animal-People is just a personal riff and semi-private in-joke on all of the varieties of critters that have been proposed as a Possible Third Race, so I just combined them all into one nightmarish monstrosity. So many people had suggested "Pirates" or "Ninjas" or "Ghost Pirates" or "Space Ninjas" or "Minotaurs with Battle-axes" that I felt combining all of these aspects would be appropriately StarCraftian/Warhammer-ish/over-the-top/just-what-the-players-asked-for. :laugh:

    Thanks very much for all of your input so far. I'm looking forward to finishing the data input and reformatting the text this week, and I hope you'll stop by, as I very much value your input, and well-expressed ideas.

    Cheers!

    @seffy: Thanks. As a former PCXL reader and PC game magazine addict, I've read about four thousand game reviews for all kinds of games I've never played: RTS, RPG, console, racing, adventure, dungeon-crawling, etc. I've actually only played about twelve games: Unreal (and every mod ever made for it), Q2 for the PS1, Starsiege (for about a grand total of a day), Tribes (and every mod ever made for it), Tribes2 (for a grand total of about a week), Unreal Tournament (all the way through, plus I played a lot of modded UT), Q3a (all the way through, and halfway through again), TeamFortress 1.2 (for about a year, every single day), Daikatana (for one day, then traded it for Deus Ex), Deus Ex (all the way through, three-and-a-half times: Good, Bad, Ugly and speed run/Batman-style), RtCW (about half way through - then I found Tremulous), Halo (at somebody else's house, on their Xbox), Halo2 (ditto) and a few others, like Rune, Half-Life, TeamArena, etc. The only RPG I've ever sat through was DX. :)

    @both: Thanks. I like shooters, 'cuz I can just get up and walk away. Killing NPC-rats for copper never drew me in, when I could just go play Tribes and blow shit up. But killing Dretches for Bounty, when the Dretches are players? Now that sounds like fun. Especially when the Dretches can evolve into Dragoons if I feed too much. :P

    player1

    • Posts: 3062
    • Turrets: +527/-401
      • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
    The Unvanquished.alpha
    « Reply #27 on: December 11, 2008, 10:46:57 pm »
    OK, most of the basic class-related info has been input. Next will be a description of the models, and an explanation of all new terms. An art contest is soon to follow. I have put in somewhere between 12 and 20 hours working on this so far this week, so it may be a few days before I get back to it, to continue cleaning up the text and format. In the meantime, friendly critiques gratefully acknowledged.

    Cheers!

    The Me

    • Posts: 85
    • Turrets: +19/-21
    Re: [Concept] The Unvanquished.alpha
    « Reply #28 on: December 11, 2008, 11:37:33 pm »
    I say scratch the health pack  and have the priestess as the only outside healer. Strip the priestess of some of her weapons and up her healing ability 15 hp per 90 seconds is ridiculously slow. Don't allow every class to have both ranged and close attacks, but rather have some close range classes, and some long ranged classes. This will improve teamwork, something which will be different from the other races. As for the Nymphs dretchfly ability, we already have an alien class, we don't need 2 (be a little bit more imaginative)

    V.v no need for so many types of each class, have each class, have new abilities unlocked though stages, and have each class have have one shape and one purpose.
    « Last Edit: December 11, 2008, 11:43:31 pm by The Me »

    player1

    • Posts: 3062
    • Turrets: +527/-401
      • My Avatar! (if they were enabled) [by mietz]
    Thinking out loud, and thanking you for listening!
    « Reply #29 on: December 12, 2008, 07:07:04 am »
    Thanks for the input. :)

    I modified the health pack amount and carry limit, and I'm not against scratching it altogether. Too many healers? Thanks. The whole thing was written to be really bloated, since taking stuff away will be easy, but adding stuff is sometimes hard, when the original inspiration is gone (for me, that is, in the writing stage). Duly noted. I think the Priestess will Heal and the Artificer will Repair, ultimately.

    I added the Pirate-sword to the Priestess because she was so made-for-camping without it. Maybe I'll give her another weak default weapon, like the Bowglove, as her Blaster, and make the Psychic Sai her Rifle.

    Sorry for the confusion over some of the undefined terms, I haven't had time to create a glossary/lexicon of new, unmade artifacts/weapons/items/attributes yet. The Stillshield is the Priestess's armor. If she is completely still for a brief time (let's say 3 seconds) she gets a shielding aura, which acts as an armor bonus, like light armor for Humans. Once she moves, the Stillshield toggles off. As soon as the Stillshield takes damage, the remaining armor bonus (between the amount of damage and the original armor bonus) is awarded to the Priestess, but then the Stillshield must recharge, and she must again stop moving for the required time, before the Stillshield is ready to toggle on again. Seems weak, but she's either cloaked, camouflaged or invisible when in flight (depending upon Stage), so she's still pretty protected. Also, flying is moving, even hovering, since her flight is Stamina-dependent. :)

    I was thinking of giving the Bowglove to the Priestess, and a similarly weak default weapon to the Artifice (like Poison Darts), and making both of their daggers (Psychic Sai and Athame) the equivalent of a Rifle-slot weapon.

    I hadn't actually even posted a Healing rate, since I need to find some current numbers for that, and look up a lot of Tremulous damage tables. :-[  :-\ :)

    Yes, it's way too many weapons, and artifacts, and models. I plan to glean the entry for the Evolute, and add some armor choices, possibly a Teamsee helmet, although they might just have default loadout, and every level the same weapons and armor gets more powerful while the dude gets less health. I wanted the Evolute, as the Soldier class, to each have a sword, a bow, and a staff or spear, but I need to fix the order, and the damage table a bit. The Mer-centaurs I want to have ranged weapons at one level, across the stages, and melee weapons at another level, across the stages. I want these two classes to do the heavy lifting as Soldiers, and Base Destroyers. It still needs work. Thanks for the input. :)

    As for the new Alien classes, my plan was to introduce them via the Nymph and the Mer-Centaur, and then when a Total Conversion is made, give these new classes to the Aliens, and simplify the final version of the Nymph and Mer-Centaur. I guess the easier thing is just to do that now. Thanks for the input. I guess there will be two possible versions of Nymph to chose from, which Advance/Evolve differently: Naiad and Nereid; and two different versions of Merfolk: Merman and Centaur. For each class, one of the two sub-classes will be a melee fighter, and the other sub-class a ranged fighter (for the two shape-shifter classes). So: Naiad and Merman - light melee fighters with "magical" shield and health effects (more like Priestess and Artificer); Centaur and Nereid - heavy melee fighters with limited ranged attacks for Advanced players (people with more Bounty). That leaves Drunk Monk as the really heavy melee fighter, and Evolute as the mixed melee/ranged class. I'll make the Pirate-sword and Short-bow more expensive, and give the Priestess and Artificer a weak "brush-back" ranged weapon, like the Bowglove or Poison Darts. Thanks again. That was very helpful.

    As for the one shape/one purpose theory, I think that holds true for most of the Classes, but what about my beloved shape-shifters? How about this:

    Medic/Spy - Priestess (low damage short-ranged, and medium to heavy-damage melee, low armor value)
    Spy/Scout - Nymph (Naiad: melee - spy, Nereid: melee medium w/short-ranged - scout)
    Scout/Soldier - Evolute (advances from light to medium, mix of melee and medium to long-ranged)
    Soldier/Heavy - Merfolk (Merman: melee light - soldier, Centaur: melee heavy w/short-ranged - heavy)
    Scout/Heavy - Drunk Monk (no armor; rapidly increasing melee damage ability)
    Engineer - Artificer (low to medium damage short-ranged, light to medium damage melee, low armor value)

    TremKraftFortress?

    :) ;) :D

    Thanks, again. Cheers! Edits to follow. 8)

    Maybe I should just get rid of Evolute and Drunk Monk and keep Priestess, Nymph (Naiad or Neried), Merfolk (Merman or Centaur), and Artificer; thus: Healer-Skirmisher, Infiltrator/Attacker, Attacker/Destroyer, Builder. As far as I'm concerned, everyone in Tremulous is both an attacker and a defender. When the time comes, Rush! When the call comes, Defend! :hrm: Oh, balance, you keep me up at night...