On Alien crosshairs and other 'hacks'...

[Lava Croft]

Hi, with all the fuzz going on about Alien crosshairs and such, I would just like to point out, and I think I speak for at least all the SATGNU admins, that adding crosshairs to the Alien HUD is considered Cheating or Hacking. Anyone caught with the crosshairs (don't ask me how we can ever catch anyone using it, if they dont say so themselves...) will get a ban.
I hope this is clear. Don't meddle with your PAKs.

[soubok]

Prefer a grain of salt set to the center of your screen with a piece of scotch-tape  

EDIT: the scotch-tape must be transparent !

[mindfray]

or instead of doing that. try playing quake 3 or half life with the crosshair turned off. that way you can get useed to where the center of the screen is. then just remember where to aim with a drech or goon for headshots ect.

[Stasis]

Or just cover your entire screen with white paper and put a small hole in the center.

Make sure to write "WHEN ENEMY APPEARS HERE, FIRE" just below the hole.

Best aimbot in the world, I swear.

[Stasis]

Or just cover your entire screen with white paper and put a small hole in the center.

Make sure to write "WHEN ENEMY APPEARS HERE, FIRE" just below the hole.

Best aimbot in the world, I swear.

[|Nex|TrEmMa]

:O
Double Poster!

You could always try the human-only approach.  Then you'll never find yourself owrryin about crosshairs .

[Lava Croft]

You guys are too much! I do hope you guys kind of catch my drift, because where is the line when it comes to editing Trem? What is just harmless editing and what is cheating? Anyone?

[Kattana]

Anything that plays for you/aim for you or gives you info other players dont normaly get(think wallhacks, bright skins) are cheats.
Changes to the hud, binds, ect... just make the game a little more comfortable to play and are harmless editing, a lot of that stuff like the crosshair could be emulated outside the game with tape as others have said or a differently configured keyboard if you want to go that far with binds so its pointless trying to stop it, but binds that effect the game by for example eliminating recoil would fall into the cheat catagory.

[Lava Croft]

You make no sense...

[Henners]

But surely a dretch cross hair by many peoples own admission makes it easier for them to play as a dretch. So therefore it is giving them an advantage they wouldnt have without it, an advantage other people dont have. Therefore it can be considered an unfair cheat.

[Stof]

But surely a dretch cross hair by many peoples own admission makes it easier for them to play as a dretch. So therefore it is giving them an advantage they wouldnt have without it, an advantage other people dont have. Therefore it can be considered an unfair cheat.

Any trivial cheat cannot be considered unfair or even a cheat.

And since this one just needs some marker in the center of the screen, this cheat is now to be considered trivial and thus not a cheat

[[db@]Megabite]

I guess it does not make it easier for them but just more comfortable. They have a feeling that it is easier, but it is not.
In fact an alien crosshair does not give you any real advantage, as aiming as a dretch is done by movement and not by putting something in a crosshair and firing. As you cannot effectively stop this, people may apply some "tape-hardware-cheat", the whole discussion is pointless anyway.

The same discussion happened months ago when Call of Duty 2 came out. You don't have a crosshair while moving in that game. Using a "software-crosshair" is considered a cheat, but using a stripe of tape with a dot on the screen cannot be evidenced.
In CoD² it actually gives you an advantage. In Tremulous it just makes some people more comfortable. If you can play as a dretch without a crosshair, fine. If you have played shooters only with crosshair for years and a crosshair makes you feel more comfortable, use it for god's sake.

Just my 10 cents.

Danny

[Lava Croft]

I am opposed to screwing around with game content on ANY level. Period. I still stand by my opinion that anyone caught doing so should be banned. Because I ask you all again, where do you draw the line? What is merely making people feel more comfortable and what is cheating? Giving my Dretches a different color, like fluorescent green, makes me feel more comfortable, for example. And another player would like the Tubes to be red, because it makes him feel more comfortable, and so on.

[Stakhanov]

Oh yeah , and the fluo dretches should have spikes going out of their tiny body in all directions , makes them look scarier

Tremulous may need a file consistency check if it becomes widespread...

[Demonic Spoon]

...So the dretches can fucking aim, maybe?

It's already been stated that dretches, etc. can turn on crosshairs in the options menu next version.

[Ksempac]

I am opposed to screwing around with game content on ANY level. Period. I still stand by my opinion that anyone caught doing so should be banned. Because I ask you all again, where do you draw the line? What is merely making people feel more comfortable and what is cheating? Giving my Dretches a different color, like fluorescent green, makes me feel more comfortable, for example. And another player would like the Tubes to be red, because it makes him feel more comfortable, and so on.

I totally agree with that...any form of messing around with the game is cheating.

The fact you feel more comfortable with crosshair clearly show that it is an unfair advantage.

About "tape style cheat"...good luck with TFT screen...and personnally i wouldn t want to put an ugly tape on my CRT screen.

[[db@]Megabite]

As I just said, you cannot prove someone using this. If you think it is necessary to ban people using it you must do so.
We could start banning people with rate 3000 either. They are lagging, at least...

Danny

P.S.: I am against meddling with things to get an unfair advantage. If people want to customize their games and nobody gets hurt, why not? You cannot prevent them anyway in a completely open game.

[Quaoar]

Well, are binds considered cheats? I have binds, but I've managed not to get comfortable with them, so I'm still swapping items and buying stuff the old way, which is slower and makes me lose concentration. When people first started binding, was it considered a cheat?

Humans binding makes using items much faster and easier. Being able to activate jets and toss grenades without going through menus gives humans an edge in battle. Aliens bind evolutions and maybe building, but I do believe binding gives humans an added advantage during fights that aliens don't get. Is it cheating?

[chompers]

I use crosshairs on aliens and they do make enough of a difference that it is worth making the change. I also use lots of binds so that I don't have to stand still when evolving, building or using the armory. I think the advantage of binds is far greater than the advantage of the crosshairs. Even so, the question of 'Where do you draw the line?' is pretty simple.

The answer is cfg files.

cfg files are meant to be edited. So my binds are all perfectly legal, but the crosshairs are less clear cut, because while they are done with custom cfg files, you have to point your hud away from the default file which is "txt", not "cfg" and from there you create new .menu files which define the HUD. There is no "messing with PAK files" involved, other than being aware of what is in them.

When I asked Timbo "Crosshairs, legal or no?" his response was "probably not, but meh... it's open source"

There is a fine line too between personalising your game and holding an unfair advantage. I am not looking for an unfair advantage, here are my HUD files, use them if you want:

http://www.evilbastard.org/slight/chompers-ui.zip

unzip to base and type "/cg_hudfiles ui/chompers.cfg" from console to activate.
/cg_hudfiles ui/menu.txt to deactivate
You must start a map for the changes to kick in.

Here's a list of changes in my HUD. These customisations are closer to fixes than exploits IMHO:

* Player names are smaller.
* Timer is larger and more prominently positioned.
* Small crosshair on all aliens except granger.
* Adv. Dragoon barbs are positioned vertically beneath the crosshairs to be more prominent. This may also assist in judging height vs. distance if you get used to it.
* Darker background on human HUD so you can clearly see credits and build points remaining when holding the construction kit.

Don't use this HUD if/when you play on SATGNU tho.

[SonicFreak12]

Good idea, chomps. Just hope nobody kicks you (which they probably won't, but there's no telling :/ ).

[Neo]

I don't see the problem with it, people can use them if they want though I don't personally. If your aim is that bad that you need them then its only fair,  kinda like alien training wheels.

[Arch_Enemy]

i did wot u said and now when i go to connect to a server it says something chompers is using defualt or sometihng and then i cant use the arror on the game :S

[Caveman]

I am backing Lava croft there a 100%.

[stahlsau]

I am opposed to screwing around with game content on ANY level. Period. I still stand by my opinion that anyone caught doing so should be banned.

Well than, ban TJW. And anyone using his patches executables. Problems start with the people running patched servers....uh-oh, no way to ban them.

Keep it easy guys...this game is opensource, so it should be fairly simple to create your own cheat-client if you want that. And since there's no punkbuster or s/t, noone could really prove it. Period. Just let the people use different ingame-guis and crosshairs and stuff, and be happy there are no REAL cheaters out there (at least, i've never seen one. And no, a one-hit-kill as dretch doesn't count [96dmg/headshot, believe it or not] )

Many other opensource onlinegames have big problems with cheatclients, just be happy that we don't.

[Caveman]

I still stand by my post, but I should clarify what I understand with

Hi, with all the fuzz going on about Alien crosshairs and such...

This I understand as using something, an external hack (e.g. preloaded lib) or a selfmade client that gives the user a software advantage that the other/normal players are unable to obtain.

Stahlsau, you mentioned TJW's mod. That is the perfect example .)
His mod is freely available to all, even included in the svn-version of trem iirc. But I'd consent to let other clients connect, if those are also freely available _AND_ don't give an advantage to the average user/player.

On a side note.
We don't have to convict someone of being a cheater...
Remember that the Owners/Admins have to consider the whole gameplay/fun on the servers. So if someone shows skill above the average player and rages/owns a server, that player should be asked to leave. No one likes to get owned over and over again.
The same is also valid, to a lesser degree, for noobs. If they don't learn fast and make to many mistakes they also should be asked to leave.
Both, Pro and Noob, should play on servers where their skill is either matched or slightly lower than the average player there.

[PHREAK]

Caveman,
reading what you just wrote made me realize that you've picked the perfect name for yourself.

If hummies are allowed to use binds, aliens should feel free to use crosshairs. Simple as that.

While both options give the player a possible advantage, it's not even close to cheating, since it doesn't alter or improve their abilities. A crosshair doesn't aim for you. It just makes it easier for YOU to aim.

Also, remember that the slightes bit of high ping will render the crosshair useless (as it does with the hummie crosshair) so binds still carry a larger benefit.
I personally don't use binds nor alien crosshair but I have no problems with either.

[Caveman]

Phreak, you did not understand a word of my post.
It is not the matter between hummies / aliens it is of "readyly available".

I might be a caveman, granted, but more often than not I at least grasp what it is about before I post can you say the same?

[PHREAK]

Alien crosshair and hummie binds are as readily available as TJW's mod....so yeah, I grasp the post before I reply to it.

Any other questions?

[Caveman]

lol, you just got owned, without any doing by me *G*

[rasz_pl]

It is not the matter between hummies / aliens it is of "readyly available".

I dont get it, so if I post a radar hack in form of easily installable mod you will be ok with it?