Why Trem will die.

[toast]

Your fucking admins.
Don't get me wrong, I like some of you, but damn I am so sick of hearing shit from you.
I have played trem on and off for years. Why has it suddenly changed in the last few months? Do they let anyone be an admin? Should I apply too?
This is not an abuse thread.
This is a thread to bring attention to the fact that some people don't deserve admin.
Also, Cadynum, this is not directed towards you. That was nothing really. Just a feather on a 400lb weight.
The only things I have experienced with admins is either abuse of power, or lacking the will to do something about someone actually doing something wrong. Very few are actually "good admins".
I'm about fed up to the point of leaving. I'm not the first and won't be the last.
You guys make me sick.
/thread

[Qrntz]

/thread

Not so fast! We have a lot of flaming to do!

[Vape]

Game's already dead.

[swamp-cecil]

I so fucking agree with toast. The reason for the death of trem is not only the abusive admins, but the trolls. Most people are good, but people who talk about sex and swear alot are the people who make people leave and give a bad impression to the newcommers. I do recall hearing "we don't need powerful admins; just helpful players". I couldn't agree less. I've taken a couple newcommers to a private server and taught them trem. Why can't everyone do this? It's not so hard. Ever since, I have never seen those players again, and I blame it on the perverts, the rusty and the negative.
So how about we start a tremulous revolution, and bring it back to life by giving negative consequences to trolls and abusers? We've denybuilt bad builders. Who cares. Let them build a crap base. That makes them quit trem. Who cares if someone bleeds. Find a way to tell them to stop instead of banning them for 5 days.

/thread

Not so fast! We have a lot of flaming to do!

Don't

Game's already dead.

Then why don't you help instead of whine.
You see, it seems so easy to fix tremulous, and yet we don't. So how  about we start something new to save the game. Eh?

[Conzul]

To be productive, However:

1: 1.2 GPP needs an equivalent to the Wrath Newbie Training Server. When I first started, there were a number of times that I almost ragequit, but WNTS kept me around just long enough to get addicted, and that's the sweet spot in keeping a game alive.

2: This one is painfully obvious: If you like trem (a lot), then find ppl like you (online or real ppl) and point them to the game. Play a private match with them. Get them addicted. w/e

[RAKninja-Decepticon]

snip

perverts?  havent you heard?  granger is NOT for fuck.

we dont have negative consequences because no two people agree on what "trolling" is.  a good number of people are too sensitive, and take anything not brimming with sparkles, sunshine, and light to be trolling.

bleeding.... you bleed me, i bleed you back.  no hard feelings.  wont even bleed back unless it's bleeding out of combat, or clearly not accidental.  yes, i will be a bigger class, or just as big as you when i bleed back.  should have thought of that when you decided to bleed.  bleeding structures.... thats a TK first time.  second time, it's votekick.  so far, nothing an admin needs to get involved with.

depending on how many players are in the game, you dont even have to take newbies to a private server.  i've demonstrated the basics of building the few bases i know how to build to newbies on us1 with little to no problem.  most folks playing have played an FPS before, perhaps even a q3 based FPS, so a little pointer here and there is all they need ("always aim for the head!" for example)

the "death of trem" is quite easy to explain.  it's a niche interest mod to an old game.  it is not a CoD or CS clone.  i've been an active community member for many such games, and few other community members seem to come to grips with this, they always want to blame the death of their favorite game on whatever mechanic displeases them the most.

personally, i think trem will be actively around at least another 5 years.  i mean, we still can fill at least one server to capacity every day.  when we cannot do that for more than a month, then i might be willing to accept the fact that "trem is dying".

[Qrntz]

I do recall hearing "we don't need powerful admins; just helpful players".

Quote from tuple.

Most people are good, but people who talk about sex and swear alot

I blame it on the perverts

Er... I don't really get how people like monkeyman (if that's what you're trying to describe) disrupt someone's gaming experience. Mainly because they don't.

So how about we start a tremulous revolution, and bring it back to life by giving negative consequences to trolls and abusers?

Unlikely
Not trying to oppose your point, this just seems a bit too pompous. What kind of revolution are you talking about in here.

everything dies

Many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, sir. Everything is bound to exist indefinitely in some parallel universes not interferring with the ones in which it's dead.

[Conzul]

Silly Qrntz....everyone knows that there's only one of everything.

And even if that weren't the case...our instance is the only one that matters, because it's the only one we can occupy.
Silly ol' bear.

[Pazuzu]

I've taken a couple newcommers to a private server and taught them trem. Why can't everyone do this?

Tutorial servers? Discuss.

[KillerWhale]

rabblerabblerabble kill all admins rabblerabblerabble

[kharnov]

omg guys there are admins 

he;lp

[Kiwi]

stuff

Can you give a few examples please?  Maybe it's just because I am an admin, but I see hardly any abuse on the server (and when I do it is quickly and promptly taken care of).

1: 1.2 GPP needs an equivalent to the Wrath Newbie Training Server. When I first started, there were a number of times that I almost ragequit, but WNTS kept me around just long enough to get addicted, and that's the sweet spot in keeping a game alive.

A large amount of the Wrath Newbie Training Server code was ported to gpp, however there isn't much we can do until 1.2 is released. (for example host a server full time)

[Pazuzu]

1: 1.2 GPP needs an equivalent to the Wrath Newbie Training Server. When I first started, there were a number of times that I almost ragequit, but WNTS kept me around just long enough to get addicted, and that's the sweet spot in keeping a game alive.

I'm thinking more like an automated server, that runs a map specific to training newbies (ie with messages on the walls). We might need two servers, one for teaching them to play each team.
I'm serious about this project. I can help with planning, coding, and design, and possibly hosting (not likely, but I still have a spare laptop). I'll gladly take this to a separate thread if that's what we need.

[kharnov]

I'm serious about this project. I can help with planning, coding, and design, and possibly hosting (not likely, but I still have a spare laptop). I'll gladly take this to a separate thread if that's what we need.

If it comes down to buying a server from MG, then I will help you out, like paying for it every other month or so.

[Pazuzu]

Separate thread for this?

[kharnov]

Separate thread for this?

yes

[Pazuzu]

http://tremulous.net/forum/index.php?topic=16176.0
Now back to bashing the admins.

[ziplocpeople]

I so fucking agree with toast. The reason for the death of trem is not only the abusive admins, but the trolls.

I'd say it has more to do with the splitting of the community, impatience of the community (long development cycles happen, people need to learn to deal with it), better graphics found in other free/opensource games (sadly, people don't value gameplay like they used to, it's all about looking the most [sur]real,) and I wouldn't say "trolls" but rather assholes in general.

Adminning? Ffs, give me a break. I don't know if you ever played 1.1, but more times than not servers had much more abusive admins there than on the gpp, and people still stuck around, hell even I did, it motivated me to become an admin in the first place. It's a privilege that I try not to use unless necessary, but mistakes can be made, we're all human. Simply shouting abuse at every little thing isn't going to solve anything, if you really think someone's regularly abusing compile a lot of evidence, or hell, just PM them in-game (or if they prefer, on IRC) and explain exactly why you feel what they did was wrong. Yelling abuse in-game not only leads to admins getting pissed off, but it also detracts from the entire experience of the game. I don't know about you, but if I was a newbie playing the last thing I'd want is to see a bunch of big green text with people saying "ABUSE!!!" for ten minutes straight (I may be exaggerating, but I hope you see my point.)

tl;dr: People leave Trem for more "exciting" projects. If you have an admin maturely speak to them in private, if that doesn't work get quite a bit of evidence before making a forum posting.

[Qrntz]

one of everything

define 'one'
define 'everything'
Disclaimer: nobody knows

[F50]

the "death of trem" is quite easy to explain.  it's a niche interest mod to an old game.  it is not a CoD or CS clone.  i've been an active community member for many such games, and few other community members seem to come to grips with this, they always want to blame the death of their favorite game on whatever mechanic displeases them the most.

personally, i think trem will be actively around at least another 5 years.  i mean, we still can fill at least one server to capacity every day.  when we cannot do that for more than a month, then i might be willing to accept the fact that "trem is dying".

truth.

Also:

Everything dies

And finally, please, do show some real admin abuse. I think the number of abuse cases to the number of claimed abuse cases, based on forum threads before kharnov's sticky is something like 5/50. Any, any sort of evidence of actual abuse would be wonderfully refreshing.

[Heli]

1: 1.2 GPP needs an equivalent to the Wrath Newbie Training Server. When I first started, there were a number of times that I almost ragequit, but WNTS kept me around just long enough to get addicted, and that's the sweet spot in keeping a game alive.

2: This one is painfully obvious: If you like trem (a lot), then find ppl like you (online or real ppl) and point them to the game. Play a private match with them. Get them addicted. w/e

Yes!  Thank you!  We ABSOLUTELY need a newbie server where we can help new players learn trem on GPP.  It would be fun to do and we can teach them to honor and respect friend granger.

[toast]

Like I said this is not an abuse thread. I did not save any information pertaining to my general complaint. Kiwi, Heli, Kharn, I like all of you I think you do a good job in the server. It's the admins I see maybe, say, once a month or so that come on and then bitch about the littlest things, or do nothing when I lodge an in game complaint. No one is helpful in the slightest. Earlier today, and yesterday too actually, I was trying to inquire the "deny build" vote command and no one showed the slightest interest even though they were on my team and it effected them also.
Basically what I am saying is that some admins have no sense of humor, and some have no sense of when to step in and deal with something. I do apologize for not having concrete evidence.

Kharnov:You're going to make yourself look very, very stupid otherwise.

Yes maybe a little but I was raging hard and not thinking entirely clear. Also unnecessary mutes for something not against the rules, then the person who called the vote cracks a gay joke right after and nothing happens? Pfft. Whatever. Today's a new day, I'm not raging near as hard as yesterday, but I will be logging everything from now on.

[Vape]

y i get muted everytime i say faggot?? 

[Flux]

i dun no mb u try say n-word insted and c if work?? 

[dov]

I think the ban happy mods are partially what does it I played about 20 hours a week last summer then not long after school started again I got a deny build vote against me now I'm not going to argue what I did was right but I got got pissed off and basenadded after making some comments I got a 6 week ban and didn't come back till close to 6 months later its not like we have that many players that we can afford to keep ban happy mods like that as after 6 weeks it was way out of sight and mind for me
to comment on one of the major themes of this thread if people dont like the language people use we should perhaps publicize the mute functions more

[Cadynum]

It's the admins I see maybe, say, once a month or so that come on and then bitch about the littlest things, or do nothing when I lodge an in game complaint.

That is just not true.

I said the following:

[A] Cadynum.ddos: no pointless binds please

I have no idea how you could get offended by this

[Tremulant]

*wah!*

I said the following:

[A] Cadynum.ddos: no pointless binds please

I have no idea how you could get offended by this

Toast's sole contribution to the game _is_ his pointless binds, you're rendering him useless.

[sirshiz]

people who talk about sex and swear alot are the people who make people leave and give a bad impression to the newcommers.

Newcommers? Don't you mean nude cummers? LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

[Conzul]

Speak of the devil.

[toast]

I think the ban happy mods are partially what does it I played about 20 hours a week last summer then not long after school started again I got a deny build vote against me now I'm not going to argue what I did was right but I got got pissed off and basenadded after making some comments I got a 6 week ban and didn't come back till close to 6 months later its not like we have that many players that we can afford to keep ban happy mods like that as after 6 weeks it was way out of sight and mind for me
to comment on one of the major themes of this thread if people dont like the language people use we should perhaps publicize the mute functions more

::)I believe you deserved it. Although the language thing.. there's no rule against it I don't make gay jokes, I don't usually go to far unless I rage, there is no rule against it. You make one, I'll follow it.

*wah!*

I said the following:

[A] Cadynum.ddos: no pointless binds please

I have no idea how you could get offended by this

Toast's sole contribution to the game _is_ his pointless binds, you're rendering him useless.

<3 tremulant. damn right. it's about having a good time. it's a damn game, have a sense of humor.
and like i said Cad this was not DIRECTLY attributed to you. It's a combined effort.
Although yeah that did piss me off cause I know that some if not most admins have useless binds.
Comic relief mang. The thing is you are the ONLY admin who has EVER said anything to me about it. Unless I'm obviously spamming them, which I don't until the games done with and it really doesn't matter. I got singled out and I don't really like that.