Have your voice heard! Contribute towards Tremulous development

[c4]

Sorry, but most of the sidebar links aren't really relevant anymore.

[A Spork]

How exactly is it hard to navigate?
The main site has a sidebar for everything, and the forums are your typical forums.

[Plague Bringer]

I do believe our friend is new to forums and forgot that he has an address bar for easily getting around. Whatever your complaints about navigation are, they are not with Tremulous, but with forums in general.

What links are you looking for?

[J0nnJ0nes]

So, you think the entire community it out to get you, and is responsible for deliberately designing the site to piss you off, and you're venting your victim complex/conspiracy theories here by insulting all of us.
Good luck with whatever you're trying to do.

Well, actually, I was really only referring to you, and those like you. That's because:

So you can't navigate any site that doesn't have a sidebar?

is to be interpreted as "Are you a f#%^!*& dumbass!?" and I don't see that as anything but an insult, and I respond accordingly, ... I was just trying to be a little nicer and a bit more civilized than you about it. I've got no bone to pick with anybody here, as long as they don't act like you.

You do seem to love jumping to unreasonable conclusions, are very impulsive (without a thought), have no control over yourself (at least none that I see), and you seem to generalize many things. I don't see you as the community, I see you as the individual that makes the entire community worse, not to mention look bad. I bet you could make a slum and shank-house neighborhood out of the nicest neighborhoods. I single you out as the root of many problems. Now remember, have a nice day  !

Sorry, but most of the sidebar links aren't really relevant anymore.

I do believe our friend is new to forums and forgot that he has an address bar for easily getting around. Whatever your complaints about navigation are, they are not with Tremulous, but with forums in general.

What links are you looking for?

Actually, the only link that seems to be irrelevant is the PRESS link (a huge update/change/total conversion could change that, but I'm not complaining). The others seem perfectly viable and useful, especially for new players.

I can't get to the main page, or at the very least the News page without having to trim the URL or going through the download page. That's primitive... links are there for a reason. There there to make things easier, particularly navigation of ALL parts of the site, more organized, as well as reducing bandwidth (nearly everybody visiting the forums has to go through the downloads page to get back to the main site), and making things more efficient.

For goodness sake, there's only 3 links up there, 1 goes nowhere if you're on the forum (redundant with 2 other links right on the forum), 1 leads to a manual that you really don't need and wont use right away or very often, and only 1 of them gets back to the main site, but in a round-about way. Most people don't even use the forum when they start out. At the very least make the "TREMULOUS" text area of the image a link to the main page(news)... personally I keep trying to press it, forgetting it isn't a link.

Personally, I'm even for a mod listing, and a separate map listing, with quick convenient links. The easier and quicker it is to find everything, the more people will use those things.

P.S. Honestly, I can't believe I have to argue for adding links... most webmasters would beg to get some good and useful feedback to get more people to visit their sites. There are even paid services to review sites and inform the webmaster on potential problems, including links, layout, and even color schemes. Now I wonder why people would pay for such a thing, don't you? 

[Qrntz]

Now remember, have a nice day  !

Lol, I like you just for that. I cannot say you're being righteous with the insults here though.

[J0nnJ0nes]

Well you see, there's constructive criticism and destructive criticism... really the word "criticism" is too strong and has a very negative connotation, so I'll use "feedback" instead.

Constructive feedback provides suggestions about how to improve, with ideas on how to do it, with no insult or negative meaning at all. It provides a basis for producing something even better, with useful ideas. In essence, "It's good! You know, _______ could make it even better! How about it? Maybe?  ".

Destructive feedback provides jeers and insults, attempting to destroy, diminish, and abolish completely, usually with very little or no specific details or useful information at all. In essence, "Sh$%." or "What a moron. Stupidest and ugliest crap I've ever seen!"

I was sincerely trying to provide constructive feedback about something having to do with links on the site and forum, no offense, no insult, not even the slightest inkling that anything was even bad.

Now, can anyone tell me what kind of feedback Pazuzu was providing? Did anyone find his comment useful... could anyone make anything helpful out of it?

It's true, after his insult, I only provided negative feedback to Pazuzu (although I did add plenty of positive feedback on how to improve... he just never listened, refusing to even admit any mistake was made or wrongdoing was done). That's the thing about negative feedback: No fair and just argument can ever really be produced from it. No positive feedback is produced from it. No ideas can be made from it. There is no foundation. There is no end. There is no means. There's usually not even any sense. Negative feedback only produces more negative feedback, thus perpetuating itself, possibly even endlessly.

I don't want to argue over such a senseless matter. It leads nowhere but to destruction (self-destruction included), the same way uncontrolled anger does. I don't know what tone anyone thinks I was using, but my tone was always intended as that used in a reasonable, calm discussion, no raised voices or yelling or any negativity at all (in tone anyway).

I don't want to argue an further. Just watch what you say, and try to act a little nicer. You have no enemies here. The only enemy you'll find is the one sitting in your seat.

[c4]

Obviously your influence here largely outweighs that of everyone else, though some of us have been around 5 years and you've only been around 5 days.  Let me tell you something else:  one thing around here people don't like is people like you forcing changes on them.  If you don't like what you see, make the revisions locally yourself and send them to Ingar. 

Second, you  must understand that both this thread and the feedback section of the forums aren't about the website, they're about the game.  If you want to see changes to the site, go to the thread titled:  Tremplus forum theme.

Third, you've only been around a few days and you're already ranting at people, which i can assure you will make you end up like Thirdstreettito, as in, the least popular player of all time, no matter what he did.

[David]

Second, you  must understand that both this thread and the feedback section of the forums aren't about the website, they're about the game.  If you want to see changes to the site, go to the thread titled:  Tremplus forum theme.

This thread is about the website.  Read the first post again.

[Pazuzu]

Well then, excuse me for trying to help. Your comments came off as rather stuck-up, especially for someone who just registered. To join a forum and then immediately suggest changes to it just because you lack the ability to navigate it tends to leave that impression, and judging a person from the first two comments by them that you see (justified comments at that) does too. I'm being nice here.
Now that I at least have a vague idea of what you're trying to accomplish, I can agree that a link back to the main Tremulous site would be nice, and could probably be done with just one <a> tag in the forum header. If someone has a crippling phobia of the address bar, they could go back to the main site by clicking "Get Tremulous" at the top, then "News" in the sidebar, but that's just clunky and unintuitive, and adding just one link to the header, which most forums/sites have anyway, is simple. If that's what you wanted, by all means say so next time.

[c4]

Second, you  must understand that both this thread and the feedback section of the forums aren't about the website, they're about the game.  If you want to see changes to the site, go to the thread titled:  Tremplus forum theme.

This thread is about the website.  Read the first post again.

Ah, my bad

[J0nnJ0nes]

Obviously your influence here largely outweighs that of everyone else, though some of us have been around 5 years and you've only been around 5 days.  Let me tell you something else:  one thing around here people don't like is people like you forcing changes on them.  If you don't like what you see, make the revisions locally yourself and send them to Ingar.  

Second, you  must understand that both this thread and the feedback section of the forums aren't about the website, they're about the game.  If you want to see changes to the site, go to the thread titled:  Tremplus forum theme.

Third, you've only been around a few days and you're already ranting at people, which i can assure you will make you end up like Thirdstreettito, as in, the least popular player of all time, no matter what he did.

Actually, I've been skimming these forums for years, just it never seemed necessary to register, and there was an issue with the system to register a while back when I tried (may have been the email system or something else), so I gave up for a while... didn't seem worth the trouble. What does that have to do with anything? What does that mean exactly? I have to have been active in these forums for 5 years in order to even suggest an idea? Why? I'm interested. Really, why?

Oh, and my ideas don't seem that new, just older ideas have been ignored. For instance:

can I please click on the banner to go home.

I like what I see, but I suggested something that might help. That's what it said:

The first item of business that Dasprid and myself will be handling is a new and improved website/forums. While we have a nice list of features and fixes, I thought it would be interesting to see what kind of replies I would get from the community about what they want to see in the next version.

So have at it! Reply to this thread with any new feature or fix you want to see on the new website. It can be anything from a list of functions (like - Wiki, downloads, screenshots, magical money making advertisements) or simple little things (Make the forums hot pink!). No suggestion is too trivial!

Khalsa

And yes, as David said, it is about the website. Maybe that shifted over time, but since this needed changing, this seemed the most appropriate place. Although, that other post seems nice too. Would it be double-posting to put the same idea there as well? There are just so many places to post for the same stuff.

rant  (rænt)
 
— vb
1.    to utter (something) in loud, violent, or bombastic tones
2.    chiefly  ( Scot ) ( intr ) to make merry; frolic

As I said in my previous post, I never meant for it seem like I was yelling. If you would hear me, it would be like I was reading a nice, calm bedtime story. That definition number 2 sounds nice though.

And honestly, I don't care one little bit if you hate me so much that you want to knife me in the back,... as long as you have no intention of actually acting on it. Then I would have to move, and change my name maybe, and all...   . The fact of the matter is, I've long since learned that no matter how nice I am to someone, no matter how helpful, no matter if I do absolutely nothing to them, no matter if I've never even looked their way, some people seem to always hate me. So, I have just stopped caring what anyone thinks of me, as it simply makes no sense, and what's the point of doing so anyway? Eh?  

Oh, and last, but not least, where was I forcing a single thing? I suggested, as was described by the thread. What I hate more than anything is forcing something on somebody else. You're the one forcing me, from what I see... that I "must understand", that I have to have been "around 5 years" to have as much "influence" as others and to be worth anything.

I'm sorry, but I'm the only one that has any say in how much or what I'm worth, as it should be for anybody. And what do I care what influence I have here? Everyone could have simply ignored my statements and that would have been the end of it. It's you who value your "influence" and "place" in this forum that are complaining, and for what? I suggest, and due to my low "influence", "place", and "status", you look down on any of my statements, and force me to do what you say. Why,  aren't you the pious king! "May you command me, my lord, for I am your humble servant."  

I hope I wasn't wrong in thinking only Pazuzu was senselessly bitter and mean in this community.  

Now why don't you just have yourself some nice ice cream... the heat might be getting to you.

EDIT: Ah yes, and Pazuzu. Finally, your second paragraph is the first appropriate response I've seen from you. Well done! (Although, from the sound of your first paragraph, some of these last paragraphs apply to you as well.)

[Pazuzu]

Bitter and mean as I am, at least to someone who's known me tangentially for all of 2 days, I've made useful contributions to the game (sound files, to be specific). What have you done, other than vent?

[c4]

He's obviously been ghosting the forums for years and knows the game like the back of his hand.  He's contributed over 9000 lines of code to the project, and now, it being time for him to register and all, he feels like he can relax and simply flame people with walls of text that can simply be considered bile.

[J0nnJ0nes]

Bitter and mean as I am, at least to someone who's known me tangentially for all of 2 days, I've made useful contributions to the game (sound files, to be specific). What have you done, other than vent?

Well if you treat me, a random stranger, as rudely as you do, I can't imagine how terrible you might treat someone you know, or someone you're familiar with. It only takes a single word to make an enemy. It takes many more to make acquaintances, friends, relations, etc.

Oh my, in these 2 days, I was supposed to be doing something useful!? No one told me! (Although one of my first few posts was to recommend OpenGameArt.com as a source of sounds... Oh wait, let me guess... you don't like them? They're no good? It's not the right style? They're not appropriate? Well let me catch you before you say anything, but do try them, and be specific with support for your statements.)

Do I really have to contribute before I comment on a single thing? Why? Would I be worth more to you then? Would you then not mind my insulting you so much? Would you not be so rude to me (and other visitors) then? And why would you change? Because I'm a useful asset to exploit? What would become of me if I were suddenly unable to ever contribute again afterwords (say accident, injury, family problems, move, etc.)? Would you toss me out with the garbage and scum when you knew I could no longer be useful to you, and that you knew you had the licenses securely in your pocket which could never be retracted? 

You people seem to generalize all arguments and discussions to just be either rants, flames, or trolling. None of them can be simple discussions or disputes to be resolved?

At the very least, what I can contribute to this community is teaching some common decency, to argue a point properly with support and without resorting to insults, to be polite to guests or you'll just cause annoying messes and wastes of time, be more considerate and constructive towards others' arguments, to consider all newcomers as potential contributors (as you never know who you're really insulting), and maybe think a little before you comment (this last one really seems to be failing though ).

P.S. In terms of contribution, I think I might get to 9000 lines, but not of code...

P.P.S. I hope you realize by now that I'm not likely to stop until you people stop being so rude and insulting, or at least till you cease with this senseless argument.

[c4]

Oh my, in these 2 days,

I've been skimming these forums for years,

Hmm, you seem to contradict yourself.  You obviously could have registered sooner, if in fact you have been skimming these forums for years.

[J0nnJ0nes]

Oh my, in these 2 days,

I've been skimming these forums for years,

Hmm, you seem to contradict yourself.  You obviously could have registered sooner, if in fact you have been skimming these forums for years.

Please read carefully:

Actually, I've been skimming these forums for years, just it never seemed necessary to register, and there was an issue with the system to register a while back when I tried (may have been the email system or something else), so I gave up for a while... didn't seem worth the trouble. What does that have to do with anything? What does that mean exactly? I have to have been active in these forums for 5 years in order to even suggest an idea? Why? I'm interested. Really, why?

I was not aware I was supposed to contribute right away after registering... or really, ever. I thought the forum was here to discuss the game.

[Pazuzu]

I thought the forum was here to discuss the game.

Indeed. If you wanted to write essays about how much you think the people on here suck, why not register on a writing forum instead? Or, like you suggested, put those lines to good use, instead of being pissy? At this point, that's virtually all you're doing. Even I agreed with your first point several posts ago.

[J0nnJ0nes]

Ok then.  

Should I remove all the clutter then? It's getting in the way anyway, and very off-topic (although player attitude improvement could be considered on-topic).

And I'll rephrase my first post to something like this?:

"I was thinking it might help newcomers and general forum users alike if there were more links available from the forum view, since all the links from the sidebar are missing. Maybe having at least the Tremulous banner at the top a link back to the main page of the site? It would also be really neat if there were direct links to mods and maps, either leading to the forum-specific areas, or maybe pages on the wiki? How about it?"

Is that nice enough? Honestly, I still can't find anything in my original post that could have provoked such a mean response.   I was trying to put everything as nice as humanly possible.

If this is nice enough, then I'll replace it. If not, please, be my guest and tell me what is more appropriate.

EDIT: Just waiting for some answers -> Is it good enough? Yes or no.

[CreatureofHell]

Should I remove all the clutter then? It's getting in the way anyway, and very off-topic (although player attitude improvement could be considered on-topic).

If that ever happens it will be because of a miracle.

[Pazuzu]

You already know I agree with adding a link back to the main site. One <a> tag shouldn't be too much to ask, and it makes the site/forums look more polished anyway.

Should I remove all the clutter then? It's getting in the way anyway, and very off-topic (although player attitude improvement could be considered on-topic).

Forum etiquette says that deleting huge clusters of posts is a bad idea unless it's spam, so probably not, now that the thread's back on topic.

Should I remove all the clutter then? It's getting in the way anyway, and very off-topic (although player attitude improvement could be considered on-topic).

If that ever happens it will be because of a miracle.

Or 1.2 coming out. Wait, no, that would make everyone whine about the balance changes.

[sheridanm962]

What about being able to create manual operated turrets???

[Pazuzu]

We have those, we call them "guns". You can even carry them with you.

[1337-Kynes]

What about being able to create manual operated turrets???

Turrets are only capable of camping, I think this would be a pain.

[Garion]

Bullets should pass through the walls and other maps objects so Humans would be able to camp at their base and still rape the aliens.

[CreatureofHell]

Bullets should pass through the walls and other maps objects so Humans would be able to camp at their base and still rape the aliens.

Your use of the world still implies that Humans are always raping the Aliens which is untrue.

[Pazuzu]

And "would be able to" implies they don't camp already.

[Dobrogaming]

Hey, I made an account to specifically answer on this post (Just thought I'd let you know)

Two big improvements I would like to see: One is Occasional "Map packs" released using the maps that are being created by the community. This for for two reasons. Reason "A" is so that we can file between maps that are high in demand, and also so map collectors (like me) won't have to browse all over the net for the maps, or have to wait fifteen minutes in the tremulous loading screen while we wait for a single map to download.

Improvement number two is gameplay changes. I feel that most games go out like this: Humans do alright at first against Dretches, but once a Dretch manages to evolve, they basically become bulletproof to the basic rifle, unfortunately, this leads to very frusterated humans. Doing minor adjustments like speed adjustments to Dretches(As it seems like I'm trying to shoot at a bullet when one is coming at me) And maybe more hits to kill a human when your a Dragoon(Dragoons could still be VERY dangerous even if it took two swipes instead of one to kill a human.


Sorry about my bitching! Only trying to help =)

[Pazuzu]

Two big improvements I would like to see: One is Occasional "Map packs" released using the maps that are being created by the community. This for for two reasons. Reason "A" is so that we can file between maps that are high in demand, and also so map collectors (like me) won't have to browse all over the net for the maps, or have to wait fifteen minutes in the tremulous loading screen while we wait for a single map to download.

Improvement number two is gameplay changes. I feel that most games go out like this: Humans do alright at first against Dretches, but once a Dretch manages to evolve, they basically become bulletproof to the basic rifle, unfortunately, this leads to very frusterated humans. Doing minor adjustments like speed adjustments to Dretches(As it seems like I'm trying to shoot at a bullet when one is coming at me) And maybe more hits to kill a human when your a Dragoon(Dragoons could still be VERY dangerous even if it took two swipes instead of one to kill a human.

Valid points. Here's what I recommend.
1) There's a "Map Releases" section on this forum. That should help considerably. (Still, it shouldn't take 15 minutes to download a map- have you checked your net settings?)
2) I suggest traveling in groups. If your team won't do that when you suggest it, you have much bigger problems to worry about- namely, that your team is stupid.

[Menace13]

I feel that most games go out like this: Humans do alright at first against Dretches, but once a Dretch manages to evolve, they basically become bulletproof to the basic rifle, unfortunately, this leads to very frusterated humans. Doing minor adjustments like speed adjustments to Dretches(As it seems like I'm trying to shoot at a bullet when one is coming at me) And maybe more hits to kill a human when your a Dragoon(Dragoons could still be VERY dangerous even if it took two swipes instead of one to kill a human.

Good rifles have no problem with any alien class. Dretch speed is fine. It is easy to shoot one before it can get you (unless it is a good Dretch), the problem only being when they come in groups of 3 or more while you are alone. Dragoon can't kill in one hit if you get a Helmet. However I will assume you mean at Stage 1. Easiest thing to do: stay back. Use your range to your advantage. Shoot it before it gets close enough to get to you. Backpedaling is a good way to stay far enough back, although a good dancer can keep from getting chomped (and in some cases, pounced) while they take out the Dragoon. Crouching is an extremely underrated method of avoiding Dragoons. While it won't necessarily do anything, if the Dragoon is untrained at chomping on a smaller target, it is highly likely that they will miss the chomp. And Dragoons often pounce higher rather than lower, so crouching can often save you from pounces, too.

However, after all that, what Pazuzu said is true: travel in groups. If you and your team can't work together enough to travel in groups, you guys are screwed. End of story.

[sheridanm962]

Maybe we should have Administrator areas (As seen in CS:s' SDK areas for JailBreak maps), But I don't think you guys would be happy incorporating another feature that's all ready done so in another game.